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Poll
Do you support the death penalty?
Yes. We must rid the rid of dangerous threats. 33%
No. I'd rather have my lover raped and my children sexually abused before I'd ever allow harm to come to a criminal. 66%

Votes: 9

 Capital Punishment

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Feb 06, 2002
 Comments:
Do you support capital punishment or are you one of those liberals that would have your entire family raped and brutally murdered before you would ever send a serial killer to the Chair? Are those who are against capital punishment morbidly idealistic, or simply criminals themselves?
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If it's the former, then I will simply laugh for when they grow up, they will realize that not everybody can be rehabilitated and that some people are born psychotic and have no chance of ever living a life outside of an insane asylum. Why should I force somebody that is defective to live a life of pain and sorrow? Would it not be more humane to end it quickly and painlessly?

If it's the latter, I hope they die along with all by whom they're loved. I must be cruel only to be kind.


Most other western industrialised states (none / 0) (#3)
by piloti on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 03:59:29 AM PST
Seem to have lower incidences of murder and rape than the USA despite not having the death penalty. So it's not really a deterrent for people intent on serious crime. Murder and rape seem to have much more to do with social conditions and easily availibilty of guns than anything else.

As for the punishment side of things, I think rotting in a high security prison for the rest of your natural life is a much worse punishment. And the society doesn't get to the level of the murderer by taking his life. And if the conviction is faulty as frequently seems to be the case where the felon is poor and black and lacks access to decent lawyers at least you release him rather than pardon posthumously.


Your mistake. (none / 0) (#4)
by tkatchev on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 04:22:11 AM PST
The U.S. is not a western country.

In terms of thinking, mentality, government, cultural identity, etc., the U.S. is actually much closer to China or South Korea.

Just because you have white skin doesn't mean that you are part of the European cultural ethos.


--
Peace and much love...




I wholeheartedly agree. (none / 0) (#5)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 04:33:36 AM PST
Were you to expand on this theory, I am sure it could make a fascinating article for the most controversial site on the Internet.


But, (none / 0) (#7)
by tkatchev on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 04:52:51 AM PST
That would mean writing and research. Perhaps some day, when I get more free time.


--
Peace and much love...




 
I don't think it is like any other country (none / 0) (#6)
by piloti on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 04:42:39 AM PST
I do believe in American exceptionalism but i don't think it's a postive thing at all certainly not when it come to dealing with international probems.


 
U.S.A. (none / 0) (#11)
by MessiahWWKD on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 08:17:32 AM PST
I guess to be a western country, you have to be run by the mafia like Russia is, eh?
Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

Actually, (none / 0) (#14)
by tkatchev on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 08:50:45 AM PST
Yes. I never said that Western Civilization was preferrable to a non-Western one. It's just different, due to historical reasons.


--
Peace and much love...




 
Finally, a good argument (none / 0) (#12)
by MessiahWWKD on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 08:21:33 AM PST
So it's not really a deterrent for people intent on serious crime.


Incarceration doesn't seem to be a deterrent either since crimes still happen.
As for the punishment side of things, I think rotting in a high security prison for the rest of your natural life is a much worse punishment.


That's true. Perhaps the death penalty is not the best solution for punishing violent criminals.
Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

 
Capital punishment needs to be abolished (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 07:23:58 AM PST
First, there are moral reasons for doing so. The US is the only civilized Western nation that has a death penalty, much to the chagrin and horror of our more refined European allies. I think it is obvious that human beings are capable of doing things for which they probably deserve death, but that does not obligate us as a society to actually kill them. The fact that we do puts us in an exclusive club with the Chinas and the Irans of the world. We execute women (like the Taliban) as well as mentally-retarded people. Does this make you proud? Perhaps Bush should have included the US in his highly-anticipated "Axis of Evil."

Secondly there are practical reasons for doing so. The main one is that the death penalty is so unevenly enforced. A wealthy defendant who can afford a lawyer like Johnnie Cochran or Alan Derschowitz is never going to get the death penalty, unless they have committed a particularly heinous crime. On the other hand, a poor defendant who's stuck with a public defender is basically screwed, even if his crime is far less worse than the wealthy one with the powerhouse legal team. Far too often this poor/rich divide is also one of race, resulting in African-Americans being executed more frequently. I have heard religious conservatives suggest that this is an effective way to "thin out" the minority population and prevent them from overtaking white people as the majority race in this country, which is odious (and I hope the people making such arguments burn in hell for them.)

Finally, consider several recent high-profile cases where DNA evidence has exonerated people waiting for execution on Death Row. You can always free a wrongfully-imprisoned person, but you can never bring a wrongfully-murdered person back to life. For all of these reasons and more, the only reasonable thing for the US to do is to get out of the Stone Age and abolish the death penalty. Take our violent criminals, put them in maximum-security facilities and put them to hard work for the government. The idea that murder is an effective answer to murder is ridiculous; "two wrongs doesn't make a right" is something that people should have learned in Kindergarten.


Two wrongs don't make a right, even with slavery. (none / 0) (#10)
by MessiahWWKD on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 08:16:05 AM PST
First, there are moral reasons for doing so. The US is the only civilized Western nation that has a death penalty, much to the chagrin and horror of our more refined European allies...


Popular opinion isn't always right, especially when it comes from Europeans.
Secondly there are practical reasons for doing so. The main one is that the death penalty is so unevenly enforced...


It is not because of the death penalty that a rich black man like OJ can escape justice while a poor white man would face harsh sentences for much less charges. It is because there are private lawyers. I feel that all lawyers for criminal cases should be public attorneys appointed by the court. That way, everybody's treated more equally.
Finally, consider several recent high-profile cases where DNA evidence has exonerated people waiting for execution on Death Row. You can always free a wrongfully-imprisoned person, but you can never bring a wrongfully-murdered person back to life.


I don't know about you, but I'd rather be killed wrongfully than be wrongfully imprisoned for years in a maximum security prison being raped by homosexual convicts.
Take our violent criminals, put them in maximum-security facilities and put them to hard work for the government.


That's slavery. And as you say, "two wrongs don't make a right." Clearly, the only mature solution would be to let them free since punishing them would be wrong since we'd be stooping to the levels of kidnappers and slave owners.
Guardian angel, heavenly friend, walk with me 'til the journey's end.

If you like the death penalty so much (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 09:57:08 AM PST
why don't you move to China or Iran or one of these other countries that you're gushing about? As a bonus you'd get your wish to be wrongfully killed instead of sitting in prison for years.

The death penalty has 10 years in the US, tops. The only people who seem to support it are the far-right fundamentalists who hate their own God so thoroughly that they are willing to part company with that whole commandment about not killing. The Pope has recently condemned the DP, and with Catholics being the largest segment of the US population, expect to see them team up with the rest of the Americans with moral compasses. 10 years, tops. This abomination will pass into a history as an embarassing and barbaric chapter in our history.


 
Racist! (none / 0) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 08:38:14 AM PST
The US is the only civilized Western nation that has a death penalty, much to the chagrin and horror of our more refined European allies

If you read Mr. seventypercent's article on the front page you will find that the Europeans are far less civilized than we Americans. Given the zeal with which they have joined our fight against terrorism it is also true that their bloodlust exceeds our own.

We execute women (like the Taliban) as well as mentally-retarded people.

Should we discriminate against women and the developmentally disabled? I think not.

A wealthy defendant who can afford a lawyer like Johnnie Cochran or Alan Derschowitz is never going to get the death penalty, unless they have committed a particularly heinous crime. On the other hand, a poor defendant who's stuck with a public defender is basically screwed

Yes, wealthy people drive nicer cars too, should we hand out BMWs to the homeless? The simple fact of life is that money buys nice things. That is true of capitalist economies as well as communist ones. Those nice things might be clothing, a home, medical care, or lawyers. If you want the best you have to work for it, get some schooling. As a wealthy person I would hate to know that I sacrificed throughout my youth by abstaining from parties and drinking and such, so I could study, only to have my rewards handed out freely to the slackers who flunked out.

Far too often this poor/rich divide is also one of race, resulting in African-Americans being executed more frequently

So you are claiming that African-Americans are all poor? That seems a bit racist to me. Even if they are, what of it? Individuals choose their lot in life, it isn't already decided based on your race. At birth, a caucasian has the same opportunity to end up poor as anyone else.

Finally, consider several recent high-profile cases where DNA evidence has exonerated people waiting for execution on Death Row.

So what? You sound a lot like my wife, who watches Crime TV all day. She thinks that there is absolutely no way to get by with a crime these days, that forensics and detective work are just too good to beat. Your TV is showing you only the exceptions to the rule. The thousands of proper executions (or in my wife's case, unsolved crimes) don't get as much press.

you can never bring a wrongfully-murdered person back to life.

Which is why we should punish those who wrongfully murder others, as swiftly and absolutely as possible. Our best method to date is to put them to death. Locking them up and making them work hard for the government isn't any good. Firstly, the government really doesn't have anything for them to do, and if it does it should divest itself of that responsibility and let private industry do it better and cheaper. Secondly, every imprisoned criminal who is doing some kind of productive work takes a job away from an honest, peaceable citizen.

You should grow up a little and stop being so emotional. There are certain people who do not fit into a polite society, they have always existed and always will. To minimize the, excuse the pun, dead weight that we proper citizens have to carry we should rid ourselves of them as quickly as possible. Yes, there are things wrong with the death penalty but there are far more things wrong with abolishing it.


 
Capitol Punishment is wrong, the Pope says so (none / 0) (#9)
by Adam Rightmann on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 07:40:45 AM PST
though it appears that the heretical anti-life Protestants have even gotten their Satanic tendrils into Scalia.


A. Rightmann

Life (none / 0) (#17)
by First Incision on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 08:33:36 PM PST
I stand behind your standing behind the Pope.

There are some rational arguments to make (they have pretty much all been mentioned), but I also believe that the taking of a life is an affront to God and all of humanity. This applies whether equally whether the victim is an unborn child, a terminally ill patient or a serial killer.
_
_
Do you suffer from late-night hacking? Ask your doctor about Protonix.

 
Only for cases of rape, incest, or when... (none / 0) (#16)
by elenchos on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 12:34:14 PM PST
...the mother's life is in danger. Next question please.


I do, I do, I do
--Bikini Kill


Take away the death penalty... (none / 0) (#19)
by Anonymous Reader on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 02:24:23 AM PST
...and the http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news/letters.asp?date=021501&id=l2656 have won.


 
Some liberalist thoughts (revisited) (none / 0) (#18)
by SpaceGhoti on Wed Feb 6th, 2002 at 10:57:17 PM PST
The death penalty needs to be approached cautiously. One the one hand, psychotic killers and rapists with a taste for murder (or rape, or both) need to be removed from society if it can be demonstrated that it is impossible to rehabilitate them. You do not treat a cancer by leaving it in the body and attempting to isolate it. You remove it. On the other hand, you need to be positive that the person considered for such punishment is guilty without a shadow of a doubt. There are far too many cases where later examination of evidence has proven that the individual punished was not, in fact, guilty. There is no greater crime than to execute an innocent person. Unlike a prison sentence, you cannot withdraw a death sentence once it has been carried out.

It is also critical that we continually review the circumstances under which the death penalty is applied. It is not unknown for people to demand death for lesser offenses, giving rise to the phrase "draconic law." In all cases, the punishment should fit the crime. Excessive punishments are likewise criminal.


A troll's true colors.

 
Capital punishment for corruption and fraud (none / 0) (#20)
by CommunistPartyAnimal on Thu Feb 7th, 2002 at 03:15:47 AM PST
Why stop at capital punishment for murder or rape? Here in the glorious People's Republic Of China, crooked businessmen, corrupt officials and software pirates are regularly put to death for their crimes. In public. As they should be. Now that would focus the minds of Kenny Boy and his Texan cronies eh?


 

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