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Poll
Engineering atrocities:
Blue Boxes 3%
Cell Phones 3%
Murderous SUVs 9%
Leg-hold Traps 6%
Windows 95 41%
Linux 35%

Votes: 31

 Engineers, the silent, Anti-Social Killers

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Sep 02, 2002
 Comments:
In the western world, a University education is lauded as a fundamental step for any wealthy, well connected, person looking to climb the social ladder. It is held by many, that one of the most respected and prestigious choices a prospective student might consider, is a degree in the field of engineering. Unfortunately this is a massive misconception that needs to be abrogated without delay. To become an engineer, is to do a disservice to humanity. Engineers are responsible for the deaths, and general suffering of millions of people in the last 100 years of human existence, and that the world would have been a better place without them.
elitism

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Hacker Culture and its Misportrayal by Media and Government

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faustus

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In a corporation, an engineer has limited power. If the boss wants to you to build a vibrator or a talking fish then that is what you have to do. With so many degrees handed out by accredited universities and colleges around the world, there are more than enough people to do the jobs lazy westerner's refuse to do. Do you think that all the people that work for Microsoft are evil people, bent on destroying the glass house of stone throwing lunix zealots? I don't think so. They need to feed their families and buy their well deserved luxuries, just like any American. They therefore become stooges to their masters, blindly obedient, regardless of the impact they impart upon the world.

In a benign example of this zombie like obedience, in the last ten years or so, the bumpers on cars have been switched from being hard metal bars encased in rubber, to flimsy molded plastic covers that crack at the slightest bump. Back in the good old days, when you got into a fender bender nothing happened except for maybe a sore neck and slightly embarrased ego. Your car was fine. Today the story is entirely different. The flimsy crap that is passed of as a bumper these days invariably breaks - leaving the user with an $800 bill for a 5mph car accident. Why is this? Well the car companies have obviously colluded together to make money. Why build a car that survives low impact accidents, when they can build one that breaks easily and requires the owner to purchase a brand new part, -- that is both easy to produce and notoriously expensive -- straight from the factory? Nothing, because engineers are spineless subservient drones willing to do their masters beck and call. They know that this bumper-gate is just a way to ripoff the public.

It is obvious that engineers could care less about the public that they serve, as long as their own hedonistic desires and cravings are answered, who cares about anyone else?

So we have seen that engineers will ignore any moral problems that they have with the product they are helping to create. This is mainly due to the nature of a prospective engineer. These people, mainly "men", are well versed in maths and computing sciences, and are notoriously awkward with the opposite sex. This creates a cognitive dissonance, or a friction within themselves, that continually makes them unhappy and anti-social for the rest of their lives. During high-school they are labeled as "dorks" and "nerds", which does nothing but re-enforce an already poor self-image. At University, engineers band together like a herd of elk being stalked by a hungry lion. They construct a community, and don "team" jackets to announce that they belong to the Faculty of Engineering. This is obviously a sign of insecurity, copied for the same reasons as the Hitler Youth and the Cub Scouts. Outcasts need to band together to survive. However, this can only last so long. When they are placed in a working enviroment, this social safety net is gone. A strong boss in a management position can easily bully an underling engineer to do what he wants him or her to do. He is no longer wearing his red jacket. His power is gone. Look at Steve Jobs, and how he manipulated and took advantage, of Steve Wozniak, the real genius behind Apple Computers. Steve lied and stole from Wozniak for years; the atypical engineer.

Most engineers never set foot near an Arts class or a sorority. They miss out on useful classes like psychology which is helpful in developing manipulative skills and defending against manipulation by employers. Their lack of ethics and philosophic training is also apparent. But where is the death and suffering you ask? Well before we get ahead of ourselves, we know that engineers can be easily manipulated by their bosses due to their lack of a classical education which teaches at least, strong critical thinking skills. We know that this manipulation has been applied to create cheap easily breakable bumpers designed to rip-off societies car drivers. But what if that car company, is a corporation is in the business of murder - like a nation is in time of war - then, applying the previous tenets, we get an army of engineers who are charged with creating machines of destruction, who are entirely moral-less and gutless to question their supervisor's demands. The A-Bomb, the Maxim Gun, sadomasochistic devices, structural failures; if engineers had any sense they would have refused to build airplanes and the World Trade Center. The list of black marks against engineers goes on forever.

This article has argued pervasively and effectively that to become an engineer, is to become a powerless drone-murderer, who can only help to increase the suffering of the human race. I heard on the radio the other day that the draw-string on common set of window blinds, were killing babies with such regularity - the string would become looped around the curious babies neck - that they had to be withdrawn from public sale. Would you like to be the engineer who designed this baby death trap? Do you think engineers sleep very well? Think again, murderer's consciousness are often very dark and clouded, regardless of the material rewards that one might gain from such ugly business. Now that the luster of engineering has been scratched and tarnished, the torch should be passed on to the study of literature or astronomy, as these fields of study can't be used for evil.


Engineers are predominently from the Upper Class (none / 0) (#2)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 07:35:23 AM PST
Who else would have the stamina to put themselves through the shit that is an Engineering Degree unless there was momma and poppa there to throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at them?


No, Middle class. (none / 0) (#4)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 09:40:35 AM PST
Upper class kids will be sustained regardless of what they do, so they go to university to do stupid degrees (like history of art or media studies or some other useless degree) with the main aim being to drink, shag and do drugs and have a hedonistic lifestyle.

Middle class kids are forced into doing highly respectable degrees so the selfish parents can brag about it at garden parties and stuff. So they go off to Oxbridge and become a chemical engineer or a doctor, etc.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't


That is a surprise. (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by walwyn on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 01:09:17 PM PST
The upper-class kids go in for the truely useless stuff like classics and law.

The middle classes do the history of art and media studies as a prelude to a career as a librarian, or tax collector.

Whilst the lower classes are more likely to study civil engineering, chemical engineering, and sociology. It keeps them on the building sites, factories, and gaols, but allows them access to better canteens and shithouses.


And how about me (none / 0) (#8)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 01:30:24 PM PST
I'm studying Philosophy. What class(upper, middle, lower am I from , big guy?


Doesn't really matter what class you are, (5.00 / 2) (#9)
by because it isnt on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 01:36:05 PM PST
McDonalds is an equal-opportunities employer.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

So says the Engineer (none / 0) (#11)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 01:45:59 PM PST
There is value in the Humanities that a lower class thug is incapable of comprehending( until the fateful day they wake up with sweaty palms, screaming at the thought of what might have been).


If you're so bright, (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by because it isnt on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 02:06:59 PM PST
why didn't you think of learning philosophy in your spare time at school, rather than wait for someone to spoonfeed it to you at university?
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

Don't wish that upon us (4.00 / 1) (#28)
by T Reginald Gibbons on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 03:29:12 AM PST
Have you ever seen kuro5hin? There's self-taught philosophers a-plenty there. It's as bad as it sounds.

The importance of academic philosophy is it puts the riff-raff in their place. Without philosophy degrees seperating the sheep from the shepherds, any fool who has read one or two chapters of Sophie's World could pass themselves off as a serious philosopher and we wouldn't be able to sneer at him from beneath our mortarboards. Can you imagine how irritating the world would be if people could don the mantle of philosopher without having been forced to read Foucault?


Did St Augustine have a degree certificate? (5.00 / 1) (#39)
by because it isnt on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 12:52:57 PM PST
Bloody meritocrats. Let's have a piece of paper for this and a bit of paper for that; BSc, MSc, DPhil, MA, MCSE, YMCA ad nauseum.

True philosophers don't need to be forced to read Foucault -- that implies they wouldn't have read him otherwise. It is mediocre philosophers, those who are scraping the barrel, those who are merely adequate that need a kick up the backside from the patched-elbows old guard. Don't worry yourself over kur0shin -- those wack bitches can jive with the best, but they know they can't fake the funk.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

 
Philosophers are a form of automatic writing. (none / 0) (#15)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 02:43:10 PM PST
The material relations of our survival speak to us through philosophers as if anyone needs a sock puppet to explain why they should do what they're doing.

There is value in the Humanities that a lower class thug is incapable of comprehending blah blah blah.

You'll die anyway.




 
Lets see... (none / 0) (#10)
by walwyn on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 01:44:45 PM PST
...the indolent, useless, navel gazers occupy all classes. So take your pick.


 
Just a parenthesis. (none / 0) (#27)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 03:17:39 AM PST
My friend, quit studying Philosophy now! You would do better in Politics. You're of the class that doesn't close parenthesis, which is not only the sign of a confused mind (bad for a philosopher), but, more over, the sign of a confusing mind (very good for a politician).


and you, my friend, (none / 0) (#62)
by Anonymous Reader on Fri Sep 6th, 2002 at 06:23:31 PM PST
should give up trying to be an annoying pedant, since you committed the most egregious offense of writing a single word as two words: 'moreover' is a single word, Einstein!<br><br>Oh, parenthesis (singular) requires an article, too, or the plural form.


 
Sir, (none / 0) (#23)
by tkatchev on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 11:31:14 PM PST
The proper spelling is "jail". You should learn your own native language.


--
Peace and much love...




Miss, (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by walwyn on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 01:13:38 AM PST
Your ignorance is legendary.


 
Interesting. (none / 0) (#50)
by Illiterate Bum on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 01:27:18 AM PST
Just a small question, if I may - what about the double-majors? I've received my bachelor's in both sociology and social ethics, with a minor in Western Philosophy.

I'm genuinely curious here. If you can guess what social class and income bracket I came from, I'll buy you dinner. Or something. God, I'm tired.

Eyargh.
-----

"...normal, balanced people do not waste time posting to weblogs." --tkatchev

Seems like... (none / 0) (#51)
by walwyn on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 04:49:56 AM PST
...you're part way towards your NVQ in Probation Services.

From your need to ask the question I assume that you are at present a traitor to your class background.


 
Why the engineers shouldn't sleep well... (none / 0) (#5)
by The Mad Scientist on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 11:07:15 AM PST
...when they have the management to put the blame on?


They tried that one at Nuremburg. (none / 0) (#6)
by Hansard on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 12:29:35 PM PST
It didn't go over so well.


Inaccurate. (none / 0) (#14)
by The Mad Scientist on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 02:39:04 PM PST
Nuremberg Process was concerning the top management of an entity. It's pretty clear that the top management can be held responsible for major design oversights. However, the engineers themselves are in most cases innocent; or can you be held responsible for a mistake that would show up in testing which the Management hadn't allowed you to do because of release dates they promised without consulting you?


Maybe at first, (none / 0) (#22)
by Hansard on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 10:59:10 PM PST
but after seeing how "the management" time and time again releases certain death on an unsuspecting public, the engineer must know that his or her seemingly harmless all-weather tire is going to murder thousands.

Rationalizing that "this one could be used for good instead of evil" while knowing full well that it will not be does not make an engineer any less complicit.


At second too. (1.00 / 2) (#32)
by The Mad Scientist on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 06:57:37 AM PST
but after seeing how "the management" time and time again releases certain death on an unsuspecting public, the engineer must know that his or her seemingly harmless all-weather tire is going to murder thousands.

But it isn't his fault, as long as he asks for the additional testing or additional budget. At the moment the request is denied, the blame shifts to the Management.

Rationalizing that "this one could be used for good instead of evil" while knowing full well that it will not be does not make an engineer any less complicit.

The engineers do their job and do it well. Most of the failures are intercepted in the testing stage. Some get out and then a recall follows. The biggest affairs we seen were caused by the management decision to keep silence about the matter, despite of the concerns of the engineers. Your own tire(d) example illustrates it well.

Politics and technology don't mix.


I can't wait to find out what happens at third. (none / 0) (#33)
by Hansard on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 08:02:10 AM PST
The biggest affairs we seen were caused by the management decision to keep silence about the matter, despite of the concerns of the engineers.

"Well officer, I will admit that after seeing the crazed gunman shoot half of the people in the diner, I was a little concerned about lending him my chainsaw. But it was his decision to hack everybody to bits so, when you think about it, I've done nothing wrong."


 
bah (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by nathan on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 12:00:17 PM PST
Lots of engineers collected their paychecks, went home whistling, rogered their wives, and slept the sleep of the just. Then they went off to another day designing corpse ovens and death train transportation schedules.

That's why they call it the banality of evil, dude.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

Well... (2.00 / 1) (#38)
by The Mad Scientist on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 12:48:02 PM PST
...you have to get the paycheck for something. And if it is a comfortable job with drawing spec sheets, or designing metal parts, the better.

And even if your side loses the war, well, nobody will care about rank-and-file engineers' history, they will just get different design tasks. And the project leaders, well... forget about tribunals, they will be carefully escorted to the laboratories of the winning side to continue with their R&D. If you want an example, von Braun is a good one. We often forget who got Americans to the Moon.

If the times are unstable, an engineering career is a safe bet. Whoever wins will need them.


 
Not just engineers (5.00 / 2) (#41)
by jvance on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 01:40:57 PM PST
The whole of society collected their paychecks etc. etc. Schindler was a glaring exception. It makes you wonder just what you would do in similar circumstances.

This sort of thing is exactly why history, philosophy, art and literature should be included in engineering curricula. Do we really want people building the engines of our culture, who have no grounding, investment in, or appreciation of our culture and its history?

I apologize for being too lazy (or perhaps too stupid) to tie together the first and second paragraphs more explicitly.
--
Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

But what to do? (none / 0) (#52)
by The Mad Scientist on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 06:29:55 AM PST
It makes you wonder just what you would do in similar circumstances.

Collect my paycheck. Knowing well that when the times change, technicians will still be needed.

This sort of thing is exactly why history, philosophy, art and literature should be included in engineering curricula.

So the engineers that aren't interested in these will either flunk the classes and then cheat the tests (knowing well that a technician can cheat an art person or a philosopher any day - been there, done that, passed them without much effort and used the saved time to study tech or sleep), or pick the school where they aren't required.

Do we really want people building the engines of our culture, who have no grounding, investment in, or appreciation of our culture and its history?

Do you have any choice?


fuck off (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by nathan on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 09:13:34 AM PST
a technician can cheat an art person or a philosopher any day...

Only if we're playing nice.

Intro-level art classes don't introduce difficult technical material. Intro-level science courses have to, as technical material is their only content; it is in the interest of established power to have people study technical tinkering rather than philosophy of science first, even though most of the greatest scientific revolutionaries were natural-philosophy revolutionaries first.

So, you may never have been exposed to such fundamental artistic technical challenges as still-life painting, technical stage direction (learning effective "blocking" is kind of hard,) simple musical counterpoint, or shot composition in filmography. Rest assured that these things are non-trivially difficult, especially considering that there's no such thing as a formula to give you a correct result. To put it in your terms, the formulae are strongly non-linear, and the only solutions shown to work are so empirical as to require deeply case-by-case handling.

Nathan
--
Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

 
To fellow engineers: (none / 0) (#61)
by MicroBerto on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 05:59:50 PM PST
This goes out to all of you IT fellas as well:

If management EVER insists on something that is clearly wrong, just make sure you completely document your arguments against it. Every time! You can indeed save your own ass.

- Mike Roberto

 
Data point. (3.00 / 1) (#13)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 02:26:46 PM PST
"I will choose being a terrorist over having to cope with blue screens and unreliable proprietary software."


Prove it (none / 0) (#29)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 03:35:13 AM PST
Delete windows. The fact that 80% of linux zealots browse the net using internet explorer will always be a more compelling argument than their communist rhetoric could ever hope to be.


Impractical now. (none / 0) (#30)
by The Mad Scientist on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 04:27:56 AM PST
The world is poisoned with Microsoft-HTML and Microsoft-Javascripts that misbehave when subjected to anything non-MS. Lots of amateurish so-called developers rely on proprietary extensions, as they learned from proprietary courseware bundled with their proprietary developer tools. [spits with disgust]

However, Web browsing is an operation that is noncritical. It doesn't matter so much if the machine freezes time to time; there are no important data at risk. The machine is located in my DMZ and closely monitored, so even if compromised, doesn't pose much of risk to other systems. Data files, archives, email, database engines, backups, software development, and all other crucial things are handled on machines based on the mature architecture of unix.


Wah Wah Wah (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 04:49:37 AM PST
Linux is so brilliant, nobody can use it to for any useful work. I'll start believing your outrageous lies when you put your money where your mouth is and stop using MS.

Do you know how bad ECMAscript is, by the way? It's pitiful. Nobody uses it because it is painful to use. Forget about DHTML, nobody has the patience to dig through ECMAscript's byzantine API. People use microsoft's javascript because it is actually much more sensibly designed for its role. IE also runs DHTML code a lot faster than mozilla. There is no discernable advantage to browsing with standards compliant software. Standards compliant seldom means usable, for the programmer or the user.

"Internet Explorer - Because 80% of raving linux zealots can't be wrong all the time."


 
Quit whining (none / 0) (#43)
by because it isnt on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 03:14:08 PM PST
you're usually quick to "route around" any other "brain damage". If pansy little javascripts are giving you gyp, what are you waiting for? You have the entire source code to Mozilla. All you need to do is change their javascript implementation to match Microsoft's proprietary one. Distribute that as a patch and the ch1x0rs won't be able to resist you (does the word SAMBA mean anything to you?). Even better, make a switch that lets the user choose between the standard or the MS DOM (preferably selectable on a per-website basis a-la Moz's image and cookie management). Add a feature that automatically mails the guy in the AUTHOR meta-tag with a list of his standards violations and a fixed-to-standards version of his page.

Personally, I haven't written this patch myself because all the sites I use work fine in Mozilla, even the ones with DHTML. Seriously, Mozilla rocks - tabbed browsing, form and password filling, fantastic cookie management, a Secure Sockets Layer that's actually secure, a working Unicode implementation that Klerck can't widen pages with, and I haven't seen a popup advert for months. You don't even have to run Linux to use it. I can't see why anyone at Slashdot has an excuse not to switch.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

 
do you have proof of this %? (1.00 / 1) (#34)
by detikon on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 11:53:53 AM PST
So let me get this straight. You're attempting to claim that 80% of linux zealots (a term thrown around loosely at this site) use Windows (or IE on a Mac? Do you have proof of this or did you just pull the number out of your ass?




Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

They're talking about Slashdot stats. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by because it isnt on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 01:13:23 PM PST
Go have a look. 80% of Slashdot readers use IE. This comes from the server logs, admittedly skewed by people reading /. at work, and spoofing agents, but the statistic is backed up by the occasional demographics grab disguised as front page polls.

Much as I like Linux, even I have to admit that the people screaming the loudest about how great Linux is are the people who are least likely to be using it. I've never owned a machine that runs MS Windows, but ESR can go fuck himself if he wants my support. Stallman is great, though. I still think the PC architecture is a bag of warm shit, although Linux polishes it quite well.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't

No disagreement there. (none / 0) (#44)
by dmg on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 05:04:00 PM PST
ESR can go fuck himself if he wants my support.

Or mine. What a total wanker. Or a genius troll. I used to be pro-guns, but since you judge a man by the company he keeps, I have changed my views. I don't want anyone associating me with ESR...

Stallman is great, though.

Stallman is a bit like Chomsky, you know he is right in his analysis, but you can't help thinking there's not much we can do about any of it. He is marching to his own drum, which is a good thing IMO.

I still think the PC architecture is a bag of warm shit, although Linux polishes it quite well.

I can remember my first experience with programming a PC after using Apple][s & C=64s. I could not believe the sheer fucked-up-ness of the architecture. I have to say, it isn't getting any better. "far" pointers ? Segmented Memory ?

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

 
half-assed stats only half right (none / 0) (#45)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 06:57:22 PM PST
This comes from the server logs, admittedly skewed by people reading /. at work, and spoofing agents, but the statistic is backed up by the occasional demographics grab disguised as front page polls.

Amazingly though you can dismiss both. How are you to determine whether or not either of these are accurate?

Polls: Oh please, how many Adequacy.org editors are lying in wait for one of these?

Server logs: Do they show what OS they use too like "[insert browser] on [insert OS]? How easy is it to have Opera identify itself as IE 5.0 or higher? Hell, the same can be done with Mozilla or practically any other web browser. Besides a number of the visitor access Slashdot from work. Windows is still the dominate desktop OS and IE the dominant web browser.

So what's the margin of error? 50%?


Wah Wah Wah (none / 0) (#47)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 10:11:37 PM PST
Real world statistics contradict my prejudices! I'll just invent imaginary statistics to skew them back into line with my fantasy world! I'm a linux luser! I don't use windows! Nevereverever!


Makes you wonder though (none / 0) (#55)
by detikon on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 11:15:25 AM PST
When you factor in that the number of people reading Slashdot at work (likely on a Windows box) and the possibility the edtiors and other adequacy.org twits, it's a possibility.

In regards to people opting to have their browser identify itself as another...it's a little far-fetched. The market share of these browsers is not as large as IE and would likely not throw off the results too much.

However, it's rather silly too base your entire "The fact that 80% of linux zealots browse the net using internet explorer" argument on the statistics of just one site.




Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

Not really. (none / 0) (#56)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 12:16:03 PM PST
One of the requirements of being a Linux Zealot is that you read Slashdot. Another is that you use pirated Windows apps and games in preference to their free equivalents on Linux, while complaining loudly that nobody is writing commercial apps / games for Linux. Please read the backlog of LZ cartoons here and decide if any apply to you. If they don't, you're not a Linux Zealot. It's as simple as that.
adequacy.org -- because it isn't


 
No the others do evil too. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 02:54:25 PM PST
I hope to be an engineer one day. It is not true that engineers are 100% the most evil of all skills. Other studies are bad/worse:
  • Chemistry: makes drugs and poison
  • Philosophy: can justify war and murder
  • Physics: makes bombs and guns; drops rocks on people
  • Biology: makes deadly germs and dangerous mutants; tortures baby animals
  • Psychology: uses metal probes to take over your mind
  • Astrology: uses Satanism to predict the future
  • Literature: writes swears and pornography stories
  • Accounting: causes Enron
  • Computer Science: haXORz b0xen; makes men celibate
  • Finance: see Accounting
  • Anthroplogy: steals artifacts from native people
  • Astronomy: talks to aliens to try to invade Earth
  • Sociology: uses French theories to make people crazy
  • Phrenology: can be used for racism
So you see all disciplines can be evil, worse than engineering. The only non evil one is Maths because it has no practical value. But I hope to be a top engineer and may one day build a dam for all of you. Or a bridge. Think if there were no bridges we'd all be stuck on one side of the river!


Math IS evil (none / 0) (#49)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 11:59:39 PM PST
Math's evils...let's see...Stoke's Theorem, triple integrals, convergent series,...list goes on and on.


 
Mr. Faustus, Sir, (none / 0) (#17)
by jvance on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 03:21:25 PM PST
You make many valid points, particularly in your sixth paragraph. However, due to rampant spelling and grammatical errors, your article is painful to read. It's almost as if it were written by an engineer. Please withdraw your article, rewrite, and resubmit.

Thank you.
--
Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

There is always one... (1.00 / 1) (#18)
by faustus on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 07:55:11 PM PST
...fool that comments on spelling and grammar. I warn you that in some circles this can be considered trolling, a pastime not tolerated on Adequacy


--You seem to be suffering from a liberal-arts education.

The fool... (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by jvance on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 11:54:02 PM PST
is the one who can't write worth shit. I'm serious. This crap wouldn't pass muster in a high-school freshman English class.

A comment that is one hundred percent true cannot be a troll. Stop dodging the issue and just admit that you're either too lazy or too stupid to fix your article's problems.
--
Adequacy has turned into a cesspool consisting of ... blubbering, superstitious fools arguing with smug, pseudointellectual assholes. -AR

I disagree (5.00 / 1) (#58)
by faustus on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 03:27:21 PM PST
I re-read it and I cannot see where this is coming from. However, I will stop dodging issues and admit that I am too lazy and stupid to make it coincide with your standards of excellence. When you interviewed me for this high paying position, you did mention that all articles should be written in the "See spot Run, Run Spot Run" model, and it is obvious I have not lived up to my side of the bargain.


--You seem to be suffering from a liberal-arts education.

 
Please (4.00 / 2) (#37)
by First Incision on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 12:28:58 PM PST
I agree that the merciless nitpicking of anonymous comments gets old. I don't normally participate in that. But this was a front page article, for crying out loud!

I liked your article, but the errors made it painful to read. I wish, for the sake of the readers that an editor had sent it back to for correction and resubmission.

I hope you continue writing interesting and controversial articles. But please spend at least as much time proofreading as you do adding links. Readers will respect a writer who respects them.

p.s. You used about 3 times more commas than you needed.
_
_
Do you suffer from late-night hacking? Ask your doctor about Protonix.

 
Stereotypes (none / 0) (#20)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 10:17:35 PM PST
Most engineers never set foot near an Arts class or a sorority. They miss out on useful classes like psychology which is helpful in developing manipulative skills and defending against manipulation by employers.

I am a computer science student. Requirements for my major include both fine arts classes and a psychology class. Most schools have similar class layouts for engineering majors. As for the sorority commant, lol, I myself am in a fraternity. That has certain advantages when it comes to meeting sorority girls. ;)

If you are actually serious, you are obviously stereotyping engineers. We are not all like that.


The fact that... (none / 0) (#57)
by faustus on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 02:19:36 PM PST
...you make these comments, suggests to me that you need to spend more time honing your critcal reading skills, instead of staying up all night trying to squeeze another frame per second out of Quake 3.


--You seem to be suffering from a liberal-arts education.

 
yeah ok (none / 0) (#21)
by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 2nd, 2002 at 10:58:36 PM PST
Look at Steve Jobs, and how he manipulated and took advantage, of Steve Wozniak, the real genius behind Apple Computers. Steve lied and stole from Wozniak for years; the atypical engineer.

It seems you didn't read your history did you?

Steve never lied to "Woz". He too was an engineer at Atari (remember Atari wasn't always a "video game company") Wozniak was an engineer at HP. While Jobs was becoming known as the "main guy at Apple" Wozniak on many occasions chose instead to stay out of the public eye. This meant that when Apple grew rapid almost overnight many employees didn't even know who Wozniak was nor did he know many of them.

Ultimately it was the fact that Steve Jobs had developed a very radical new work ethic that didn't sit well with many high ranking offical at Apple. Steve Wozniak time and time again has made mention that after all that has happened he has no regrets nor ill feeling towards Apple or Jobs.


Of course Wozniak claims no ill feelings (none / 0) (#26)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 02:08:02 AM PST
To claim ill feelings would be to admit that he is a loser ; While at (Atari?), Jobs robbed him blind by exploited his anti-social tendencies.


get a life please (none / 0) (#36)
by detikon on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 12:24:54 PM PST
You grasp of Apple's history, Jobs/Wozniak's employment history, and their relationship sucks.
Mike Markkula organized Apple as a marketing driven company. And Steve Jobs spoke out for buying the current technologies of the world and adding value by piecing them together to create complete, finished computers.

So Apple is not the company I had hoped it would be.

I always thought that a major player in the personal computer business, with their label on the products, would be composed of top engineers and multiple labs full of scientists developing new devices out of physics and chemistry. I only worked for HP and Apple. HP had lots of such labs. In fact they had chip manufacturing plants in each division around 1976, for a technological edge. HP was known inside and out as an engineering oriented company.
-- Steve Wozniak
I really enjoyed how the author links Steve Job's name to Bill Gates' website. Perhaps he is attempting to draw parallels between Steve Jobs/Steve Wozniak and Bill Gates/Paul Allen.

Amazingly enough Paul Allen has been marginalized far more than Wozniak. In only a few interviews where the interviewer asks about Paul Allen does Gates give hime even a bit of the credit he deserves.

Would it surprise you to know that it was Paul Allen's not Gates' that made Microsoft's offerings any good. Bill Gates even makes mention that whenever he'd go back to fix a mistake or insert something he forgot Allen had already done it.

Paul Allen left Microsoft in 1983 due to his battle with Hodgkin's disease. He retains his seat on the Microsoft board and remains its second largest stockholder.




Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

Get a life? (none / 0) (#46)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 07:35:02 PM PST
Ha ha! That's funny. Anyway, you are wrong. Allen "left" because he had a Betty Ford's disease. I'm not sure what to make of your grandiose claims for his "offerings." As far as I know, the only software he published is Winzip.


so it's going to be like this? (none / 0) (#48)
by detikon on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 11:00:38 PM PST
You're having to resort to making up complete bullshit in an attempt to come off as funny. Perhaps you just enjoy trying to discredit anyone with any real knowledge is that it?

You osm/Yoshi-clones are boring.

Perhaps you would enjoy reading the transcript from this interview with Bill Gates.




Go away or I will replace you with a very small shell script.

 
The drawstrings on my window blinds... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by Fon2d2 on Tue Sep 3rd, 2002 at 02:58:50 PM PST
were designed with babies precious necks in mind. The drawstring itself actually consists of two seperate strings, both terminating in a plastic endpiece. The endpieces snap together but pull apart very easily, especially if pulled apart by the drawstrings. Unfortunately, this is all very chinsily designed, enough so that one of the endpieces broke off. After considering for a few minutes on how to fix it, I decided to simply tie the ends of the strings together. Goodbye anti-choke endpieces. Hello choking hazard. Oh, by the way, I am also an engineer.


 
My god these editorials are retarded... (none / 0) (#53)
by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 08:11:03 AM PST
It's as if I'm at the coffee shop listening to some awkward student becoming enraged at thier own strawman halfway through thier meaningless diatribe.

Seriously peoples, don't feed the trolls.

(This is worse than Slashdot... Atleast at Slashdot you get links and references to REAL information with a few gems of insightful comments)


WTF ? (none / 0) (#59)
by dmg on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 03:40:11 PM PST
Atleast at Slashdot you get links and references to REAL information with a few gems of insightful comments

What the fuck universe are you from ?

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

Looks like Y've been T'd, ironically enough. [n/t] (5.00 / 2) (#60)
by because it isnt on Wed Sep 4th, 2002 at 03:48:55 PM PST

adequacy.org -- because it isn't

There are no Trolls at adequacy. (none / 0) (#63)
by dmg on Sat Sep 7th, 2002 at 09:53:15 AM PST
They are all deleted by the editors.

time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
-- MC Hawking

 

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