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Poll
Best way for world peace
genocidal plague 19%
hydrogen bombs 12%
anthrax bombs 4%
orbiting lasers 26%
cobalt laced hydrogen bombs 12%
fuel air explosives 4%
salt semitic earth 3%
Salman Rushdie for PM 16%

Votes: 171

 Islam is not the enemy

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Dec 04, 2001
 Comments:
Americans are ignorant, with their constant ranting to bomb mosques and kill Muslims. Islam is not the enemy.

I say this because I have actually known a Muslim woman, and she was swell.

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typical geek

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When I was starting out in my professional career, my machine partner was an Islamic Turkish woman. I worked the day shift, she worked the night shift (the machine cost $250,000, and we needed to get so many testing hours on it to validate the software, so we did dual shifts.). Now, Arzu was Islamic, but the only way you could tell was that she didn't eat pepperoni. She was pretty, didn't wear a veil, and favored nicely fitting jeans and blouses showing off her decollatage. She preferred to work the night shift so she could get off at midnight and go clubbing. All in all, a typical, fun American party gal.

This is the face that Islam presents to me, a peaceful, nice people, who won't eat pork.

Who then, is the enemy? Allow me to digress.

One of the most dangerous kinds of dogs are championship show dogs. They are aggressive and combative. A recent Atlantic article explains why, in the last 130 years the dogs have been selected for aggressive postures in order to win Kennel Club shows. So, in about 43 dog generations, some dogs have been bred to be so aggressive that they are only good for winning shows and for stud fees, as companions to humans they are dangerous and useless.

Now, imagine a human culture that places a high emphasis on violence and revenge. This culture allows polygamy, so the only men who can breed and pass on their genes are more violent and vengeful than average. Imagine these warlike people breed, and breed, and breed, for thousands of years. After many generations, these people are like show dogs, vicious, aggressive and unfit for human company.

The scary thing is, these people exist, they are Semites. From the Atlantic shores of Algeria to the Tigirs and Euphrates, from the hills of Syria to the great Rift Valley, the vicious, brawling Semites exist in a state of constant warfare and assassination. Look at a sample of Semitic countries. Israel, our country's best friend in the middle east, practices assassination, bombing and concentration camps. Saudi Arabia, our second best friend, is a hypocritical feudalistic society maintaining a tenous grip on their society with the help of their secret police. What irony, the states with the most equality and the largest middle class are Syria, Iraq and Iran.

In the old days, we would have to make Faustian bargains with local despots to keep the oil flowing, while trying to avoid being entangled in their myriad feuds and wars. Today, the promise of genetic engineering offers a solution.

Now, for those of you have object, I ask, have you ever known any Semites? I have. When I was a kid, we would occasionally visit the family of my dad's coworker, who were Egpyptian. Their little boy was a wild one, I would constantly have to kick his ass with wrestling moves learned in gym class, and he kept coming back for more. All he wanted to do was fight!

Perhaps a hemorhagic fever like Anthrax or Ebola could be developed that targets the Semitic genotype, focusing on those hooked nose, dark cruel beady eyed desert catamites. True, it may cause a genocidal plague resulting in one billions deaths, but it may also satave off World War III. After the middle east has been depopulated, a huge World Peace Park can be established, with the vast mineral resources can be protected by multinationals with extensive experience in environmental protection, while the many cultural sites can be controlled by a multinational experienced in providing maximum access at minimum hassle, and at the same time getting rid of those silly cultural biases that make is hard to get baby back ribs in Jerusalem, a beer and pizza during Ramadan, or a blender drink on Saturday.


sorry, its nurture, not nature (3.00 / 2) (#4)
by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 10:18:44 AM PST
Speaking not metaphorically enough, the Semite's passion for finely honed swords forged from cold Damascus steel can be attributed to his never having accepted the humble and loving Jesus Christ of the New Testament. Our perception of angry, vengeful Semites is entirely consistent with their institutional belief in the angry, vengeful God depicted in the Old Testament and Koran.

  • "The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name." (Exodus 15:3)
  • "And he sent you on a mission, saying, 'Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.'" (1 Samuel 15:18)

    The reason American Christians will never broker a peace in the Middle East -- and the GOOD LORD knows we've tried -- is due to the impossible task of reconciling the Semite's crafty, wrathful, unjust, unmerciful, jealous God with the New Testament. While wishing to avoid recriminations, I cannot help but remind everyone that it wasnt Jesus who dogged Job just to win a machismo bet with his alter ego.

    Note I wrote "broker a peace"; for it is an entirely different proposition to impose a peace by populating the region with Protestants, or Catholics, but not both at the same time. I prefer Protestants, myself, because their capitalist ethics will institute a booming market in pornography and ensure the further cross-pollination and propagation of Jesus genes.

    After all, it takes a village to raise a child, and a village of Christians is certainly optimal for precisely the reasons a village Old Testament warriors has adequately and repeatedly shown itself not to be.


  • Yeah, right. So christianity has always been... (none / 0) (#128)
    by Fako on Thu Jul 25th, 2002 at 10:14:15 PM PST
    You are speaking as if no christian had ever killed anybody else for minor things. Christians have killed other christians as Muslims did or even worse. And it is not that christian havent ever touched a Muslims beard... what about the crusades, eh? Crusades were campaigns for the conquer of new lands for the ever growing european population with the argument of the recovery of the holy land, killing every sarracen (one of the most peacefull fair and civilized culture who's ever stepped Arabia) in their way. So just dont act as if Islamic were the creators of violence in the modern world


     
    Well said! (4.00 / 2) (#6)
    by legolas on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 10:49:33 AM PST
    My Engineering classes are half filled with those of the Muslim faith, many who moved here from the Middle East to study. As with typical geek's experience, I find them to be well mannered, intelligent, and relaxed. And, I have to admit that some of the most attractive women in Engineering are Muslim.

    Therefore, I am shocked to see such brutality as I do in the Middle East. The horror stories of Israeli state sponsored terrorism, treatment of palestinians as second class citizens, and illegal occupation, and the resulting suicide attacks and brutal attacks on Israeli policemen by Palestinians make me have difficulty believing they exist in the same civilized world as you and I.

    However, while the concepts of deportation or biological attacks are attractive, I'm afraid they are only temporary. Just like what will eventually occur when Yassar Arafat is assassinated, a "power vacuum" will be created, and there are many, more brutal people waiting to fill that gap.

    Therefore, I am in the firm belief that the only truly lasting peace in the Middle East will be found in a glass desert. "Better living through chemistry."

    -legolas


     
    damn your world (1.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 11:23:34 AM PST
    Well im not semite but id sure blow your 'perfect' world to pieces rather than live one day in it. Im not sure its possible to single out the "I dont take this shit" gene so I guess people like me will just slip through your mass genocide and go on to kill all of you. Peace parks and multinationals running everything! no way!

    Look let me help put you straight. First lets just disregard the mass genocide 'solution' you propose as plain insane. Because lets face it if you really think its a good idea to play genetic engineering with ebola then you ARE insane.
    What I dont think you understand is the culture thing. It sounds like you liked your islamic friend only because she stuck to western culture. I guess that if she never went out clubbing or wore a veil she would have gone from being your friend to your enemy right? That you would have labelled her and islam as 'evil' and you would possibly have developed this neat little plan to dispatch of her and her culture.

    I also dont really understand your point - it started off as a reasonable if not unoriginal 'islam isnt evil' message but then decended into a '...but semites are'. I mean get real. Have you ever considered that there is NO enemy on this planet? if you are such a peace loving person then why are you so determined to find enemies? Surely it is far better there are none at all.
    Yes when i see Israeli civilians walking about shopping on the TV i really think "god! theres a bunch of hardened warrior like people! fighting every second of their lives with guns in hand...man id hate to be in combat with one of them!". Or maybe you dont notice that just about most of the population are civilians and havent ever held a proper gun before.
    Who started World War 1? Who started World War 2? You see the pattern - Western civilisation has started both of the largest wars in history. So surely we are more likely to start the 3rd. If anyone is 'warlike' and 'dangerous' it is us isnt it?

    "In the old days, we would have to make Faustian bargains with local despots to keep the oil flowing, while trying to avoid being entangled in their myriad feuds and wars."
    Yes and like any country on earth hasnt had long periods of war and violence. get real.

    "and at the same time getting rid of those silly cultural biases that make is hard to get baby back ribs in Jerusalem, a beer and pizza during Ramadan, or a blender drink on Saturday."
    Are you stupid? you know why you cant get a beer or pizza during ramadan surely? You'd be a pretty stupid pizza delivery service if you opened on ramadan.
    Ive got some silly western cultural biases we could get rid of too - lets get rid of sunday being a holy day for one because thats just stupid and then we can get rid of the constitution because its only a piece of paper and it just holds us back from introducing new laws.
    Oh then we could ban hand guns cuz its such a stupid and biased cultural thing to have the right to walk about with firearms. Yea i could fix things too.



    Try harder (3.00 / 1) (#10)
    by westgeof on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 02:34:12 PM PST
    I agree that it's crazy to play with geneticly engineered diseases. That's about all I agree upon.

    How can you say that there is no enemy? Everyone has an enemy, whether they admit to it or not. It takes two to love, but only one to hate. It's much safer to determine who your enemies are before they strike, rather than sitting in a drug-induced stupor thinking everyone loves you.

    And you think israeli citizens don't own guns? They carry concealed uzi's, and it's legal there. (That's why you don't hear much about petty crime over there.) Their whole citizenry is a just a big, heavily-armed militia. That's important, because otherwise they'd probably be wiped out by the morally superior islamics.

    Who started WWI? That's not even relevant. WWI was the biggest cluster fuck of them all, started by the assassination of a guy nobody even liked. People started taking sides, just like on the grammar school play yard, and refused to back down.
    WWII? Hitler and his third riech. A noble cause doomed to failure. Apparently no one told him that invading a foriegn country and taking over went out of style about 200 or so years ago. We got we want so the game's over. That doesn't make it evil.

    How any of this applies to western civilization being dangerous, I don't know. Maybe if you hadn't made vague overgeneralizations that implied something that isn't even true it'd make more sense.

    I guess that's where you ran out of steam, the rest of your post is nothing but baseless attacks that serve only to further reduce my opinion of you, and also make it clear that you just don't know what you're talking about.

    What's stupid about wanting beer and pizza on ramadan? Tourits are a big part of many industries, including restaurants. Remember, the customer is always right, and if they want a beer during ramadan, it won't hurt you.

    Where is Sunday a holy day? Not in western cultures. We work on sunday, we play on sunday, and some of us do pray on sunday, but nowhere is this enforce on people. We don't make tourists from non-western countries spend all day sunday in prayer for a god they don't even believe in.

    As for getting rid of the constitution, that's just plain idiotic of you. I hate to resort to your level of name-calling, but the fact that someone can say something as totally irrelevant to the topic and written just for shock value really makes me wonder why we don't enforce euthenasia for people who are just too stupid to function in society. (And for the record, assuming you're talking about the us constitution, which is usually the one meant when someone says the constitution, it is the law of the land there, not a religious belief.)

    I don't know if there is hope for you, maybe you're just trying to be sarcastic or trolling, in which case you simply need much more practice. Better luck next time. I really don't want to assume you're as stupid as this post makes you look, so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise I'd just send you home
    As a child I wanted to know everything. Now I miss my ignorance.

    Some Western Society Trivia! (1.00 / 1) (#13)
    by legolas on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 04:48:09 PM PST
    Actually, the Province of Nova Scotia (one of the eastern-most provinces in Canada, and the one I live in) has a bit of law called the Retail Business Uniform Closing Day Act, which regulates what days retail businesses in Nova Scotia have to close. Some of the legally required holidays include Canada Day, Labour Day, Good Friday, Christmas, and (yes) Sundays.

    So, basically, if you're not a resturant, movie theatre, convience store or bookstore, you're required by law to stay closed on Sundays. Yes, it is something that gets debated a lot (since we are the only Province in Canada still with this law). I personally don't think it's that bad, as I don't have the compulsive need to buy things 24/7, and it's nice getting a quiet day. But, anyways, there you have it.

    -legolas


     
    heh (none / 0) (#16)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 08:41:53 PM PST
    "because otherwise they'd probably be wiped out by the morally superior islamics."
    would morally superior people really wipe someone out? Anyway you cant talk about moral superiority when it comes down to an entire race. Everyone is playing different rules so you can only judge the overall mess from one point of view - therefore it is pointless.
    Couldnt these 'morally inferior' people also condone us for being morally inferior ourselves for fighting two world wars + vietnam and the countless other wars western civilisation has fought? Wether we started them on purpose, had good intentions or not is irrelevent as the fact still remains that immoral wars were started and continued by western civilisation.
    In the case of these wars you will probably separate the 'few evil war causers' of western society such as hitler, from the 'large peaceful majority'..the same way you probably separate the 'few evil Islamic terrorists' from the 'large peaceful Islamic population'. But for some strange reason you dont extend this to the israelis. For some reason you think they are all war loving people.
    As far as their contraversial military acts go I dont support them but does it not occur to you that the US or in fact any western country would also be practicing assassinations and 'dirty' war tactics if one of its neighbours contained active enemies?
    To say the israelis are any different morally from anyone else in the world is plain stupid as I cant see who you can compare them to as noone is in the same situation.

    "Remember, the customer is always right". Yes, in western culture.

    "As for getting rid of the constitution, that's just plain idiotic of you."
    "it is the law of the land there, not a religious belief."
    Americans believe in the US constitution as much as other cultures believe in some of their religious customs. To ask them to simply get rid of their customs because it doesnt suit you is like them asking you to get rid of parts of your constitution. You see why they wont do it to make a few dollars?
    As you have said religious custom in the US is virtually dead so therefore the constitution was the closest fitting example I could come up with.

    "the fact that someone can say something as totally irrelevant to the topic and written just for shock value"
    Oh yea - read the ORIGINAL article and tell me that 'lets genetically modify ebola and kill 1 billion people' isnt for shock value.


    You don't get it (none / 0) (#17)
    by westgeof on Wed Dec 5th, 2001 at 11:05:31 AM PST
    While it's true you can't say a given race is morally superior to another, you can say that about their culture. Islam is the only major western religion that even attempts to preach tolerance, rather than killing everyone who disagrees over even the most trivial matters. I'm not a religious man myself, but if I was, I'd rather believe in Islam than any Judeo-Christian myth.

    As for the issue of the wars, I still don't see your point. Do you think people should let themselves be attacked and eventually overrun by aggresive invaders? Pacifism can't work unless it is universal, it's a matter of defending oneself, not morality. And if you think israelis are not warlike, maybe you should visit sometime. Even their 'God' is a god of war, a merciless vengefull tyrant who says 'Thou shalt not kill,' in one breath and then demands the blood of innocents, especially if they are unbelievers, in the next. I certainly don't have any sympathy for them, if that's what you want.

    I didn't say anything about their assassinations or other dirty tactics, for the simple reason that I don't see them as dirty. Not exactly nice, but war is war, and if these tactics can bring about a quicker end, then it's probably for the best.

    I don't see how you can say that the israelis are at the same level of morality than everyone else. Every culture is different, and each one is more suited to differing needs. Israeli culture is based on oppression and genocide, while at the same time massive self defense. They have few friends in the area, and so m ust constantly be alert for attack. Some people pity them for this and want to help, but the whole reason they're not welcome there is because they forced the native people to leave their ancestral homes. Just as hitler failer to realize that imperialism was passe, the Israelites should know that civilized people look down upon invading a lesser country. The United States was stolen from the indians several hundered years ago, when the world was a different place. Things like that aren't welcome anymore.

    And what situation do you say they're in, anyway? Trying to maintain their hold on land that they stole from a different people does not really give them any bonus morality points. It looks like you're defending them for the very same reasons I'm attacking them. Would you also praise the morality of someone who came into your house, forced you out, and then set up defenses in your lawn preventing any kind of liberation of what was once your property?

    I still disagree about the US constitution being a custom. Have you ever been there? Have you ever read the document? The US constitution deals with legal issues, not with folk practices. Very little (meaning nothing that I can recall) in their constitution is there without good reason, or based on teachings attrib uted to a mysterious supernatural force. It does set guidelines that allow people to live together in harmony. If doesn't say how such people may live their lives. The only things restricted by the constitution are things that would hurt another person, or society as a whole.

    And finally, how do you see the comment about ebola being shock-value? If it were possible and guarenteed not to mutate, then it'd be a damn good idea. If you declare someone to be an enemy, than any weapon that kills as many of them as possible while endangering as few friendlies as possible is a good weapon. It's certainly less destructive than nuclear warfare, and would involve few, if any, friendly causalties.


    As a child I wanted to know everything. Now I miss my ignorance.

    I see some of your points but not others (none / 0) (#24)
    by PotatoError on Wed Dec 5th, 2001 at 09:31:54 PM PST
    "The United States was stolen from the indians several hundered years ago, when the world was a different place. Things like that aren't welcome anymore."
    So you are saying that the Indians no longer have a right to their land back as it was so long ago that it was stolen?
    So in that case in 100 years the Israelis can say the same thing - that it was long ago when the land was stolen and they arent like that anymore.

    The US is also lucky that they wiped out most of the indians as if they had let them live then some of them would probably be terrorists trying to get their land back now.

    "I'm not a religious man myself, but if I was, I'd rather believe in Islam than any Judeo-Christian myth."
    100% agreement.

    viruses - even genetically engineered ones - arent totally in our control once released and mutate all the time which makes them a highly dangerous weapon to risk using. You'd find that once the desired target had been eliminated, that strains would appear which infected people or animals outside of the target original target group. The same way that viruses such as menigitus and flu regually take on new forms. Its better to allow as little ebola in the world as possible - spreading it all over the place would be bad.

    I withdraw my comparison statements about the US constitution as you have shown they are wrong and dont work.


    <<JUMP! POGO POGO POGO BOUNCE! POGO POGO POGO>>

     
    say what?! (1.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 5th, 2001 at 12:52:55 PM PST
    Yeah, keep sniffing that cumm son, GG noob.
    I wud go to whoever sell you that info and demand a refund.
    1) non carries concealed uzis
    2) only those who served in the military (and were authorized to carry weap) are liable for gun as a civil.
    If you are caught with a firearm without registeration and valid authoraziation y're arrested and trialed for carrying an illegal firearm.
    So take your crap and blow a diode.
    Stupid noob.
    Faded.



     
    3 years military service (1.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 5th, 2001 at 01:38:22 PM PST
    <snip>
    Or maybe you dont notice that just about most of the population are civilians and havent ever held a proper gun before.
    </snip>
    erm, I think that all Isreali citizens have to do 3 years Military Service actually - so this is wrong anyways.


     
    Agreed! (2.00 / 1) (#26)
    by priestess on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 07:12:25 AM PST
    Ive got some silly western cultural biases we could get rid of too - lets get rid of sunday being a holy day for one because thats just stupid
    Absolutely, not only is sunday of no religious significance to over half of the population, it's utterly stupid the way it's enforced right now. This sunday, during the closed hours at least, I'm allowed to go buy a porn mag (newsagents are allowed to stay open) but not a bible (bookshops have to close). Any culture will be better off if observing the religious holidays, whether they have one a year or one a week, is optional

    and then we can get rid of the constitution because its only a piece of paper and it just holds us back from introducing new laws.
    Where I live we don't have a constitution, unless you count the queen and the house of lords. In many ways we're better off for it. The house of lords is probably going to throw out the new "Anti-Terrorist" bill, while your consititution didn't stop PATRIOT nor internment and millitary trials. Nor does it stop your government keeping people secretly locked up. Not to mention the one in two hundred people in your country who are in jail for victimless crimes. Perhaps using living people to protect the country rather than a 'living document' work better?

    Oh then we could ban hand guns cuz its such a stupid and biased cultural thing to have the right to walk about with firearms.
    And we've also banned most handguns in the UK too, which seems to be working out more or less okay. Obviously the police and criminals are still allowed to have guns, one because they're execpted and one because they don't care but we have a lot less accidental shootings, suicide by firearms or even gunpoint robbery than the US.

    Seems to me like you know what things would make your country a better place, but you think that they're wrong to implement in some way. Weird. I expect your 'government' to present her majesty with a request to reenter the commonwealth just as soon as it can.

    Pre........



     
    Islam IS to blame (2.66 / 3) (#8)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 12:59:08 PM PST
    If you knew aobut Islam and not just a Muslim woman
    You would know that Islam teaches conversion or death, it was how the religion was founded.
    Any person in America will be more liberal than their counterparts in the homeland.
    The background of Islam is Mohammed was born in an area that consisted of Jews, Christians and his family who worshiped Allah, the moon god. He had a dream in which a jin, demonic genie, visited him and told him to start a religion. He thought it was Satan but his family convinced him it was a message from Allah. So after founding Islam, he went about converting people. If they refused hed kill them. He kill over 700 jews, and 400 christians in his first campaign.
    Islam teaches conversion or death.

    The fued between the jews and arabs stems from the days of Abraham. Abram(Abraham) and Sarai(Sarah) couldnt have children, thus noone to carry on the family name. So Sarai told Abram to sleep with their slave, the slave had Esau(illegitmate). But he and Sarai also had a miracle child, Jacob. So even though Esau(arab ancestor) was older, he was illegitamate. So Jacob(jewish ancestor) got the birthright. And until this day Arabs and Jews fight over who was the birthright.


    You know jack shit about islam (1.50 / 4) (#9)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 01:55:05 PM PST
    If you knew anything about history you would find that the teachings of Muhummad were very different what you are saying. The islamic empire from the 6th to 15th centuries was the MOST tolerant empire of other religions at that period. You fail to recognize that true Islamic belief states that christian, jews, and zoroastrians were brothers. Islam even uses their canonical texts to some extent.
    Sounds to me like you know sweet fuck all about history, where did you get this info? Thats what I thought, some shitty pro-american underground site. Why don't you save your time and go get a real education.
    The practices which you are refering to are a bastardization of Islam by Militant Zealots. Another common misunderstanding by the feeble minded is the term: "Jihad". It is a term for an INTERNAL struggle against evil.
    Considering that Muhummad was a caravan rider, he probably picked up the ideologies of Islam through meeting Christians and Jews. By claiming it is an evil religion you are saying the same thing about it's founding sources. The first affects of Islamic belief upon Arabian culture was a lessening of disparity between the rich and the poor. Of course this was changed by greedy and ignorant Caliphs later on.
    By the way, Muhummad didn't really have much family, his mother and father died at a young age, His wife was the first convert, his uncle the fourth. The revelations that he received were not from a Djinn, they were from Gabriel.
    As for his killing 400 jews and 700 christians, there were no Christians or Jews in his first campaign to Mecca(his home town.)
    It is ignorant fucks like you who deserve to die like the poor Afghans are.

    -Go back to your fucking cave, troll.


    Re: Islam (2.50 / 2) (#11)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 03:05:27 PM PST
    There are many sect of Islam, just like there are many denominations in Christianity. Most keep to the core belief system or are not considered part of the religion.
    Although Islam shares holy books with both Christian and Jews, it does not make it the same. It is very different. You could say that Christianity is a continuation of of the Jewish religion because the Old testament contains prophesy and beliefs at the coming of Christ. However the Christian belief is that Christ is the son of God and Islam does not believe that.

    One thing about Jihad, it directly translates to struggle. AFAIK there are 2 Jihads in Islam, the Greater and lesser Jihads. Greater is the internal struggle, the lesser is the struggle in the world.
    It is important that you understand this before making judgements, although I don't claim to be any sort of expert, both of your views are slanted horribly.


    Yes you are right, (1.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 03:28:06 PM PST
    I get a little excited sometimes, I understand the greater and lesser Jihads, as for sects I only know of two major ones, you have orthodox and Sufi(I think, can't remember the names right now).
    I did not, however, state that it shared current ideologies with christainity, in fact, a they have a very serious laws against likening Allah(means, ambiguously, god) to anything or anyone.
    It is heretical to consider Jesus part of/being god. They do regard him as a prophet though.


    One little nitpick... (1.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 5th, 2001 at 03:53:46 PM PST
    They considered him more as a teacher than a prophet.


    no, a prophet (none / 0) (#35)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 01:00:10 AM PST
    what? a teacher more than a prophet? I'm a Muslim.. Jesus, or "Isa".. is considered a prophet. We see him as the Messiah to the Jews, who was not accepted. Definitely more than a teacher..



    the evidence (none / 0) (#43)
    by nathan on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 01:57:26 PM PST
    I invite the impartial reader to note this AR's admission that hatred of the Jews is built into Islam.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    hatred of jews? hardly! (none / 0) (#44)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 05:45:29 PM PST
    Prophet or Son of God, Jesus WAS largely rejected by the occupied Jewish population.

    Muslim countries inhereted anti-Semitism from the west in the early 20th century. Almost ALL current anti-Semetic language used by extremist Muslims has its roots in Inquisition Europe, and cannot be found in contemporarily-aged Islamic texts.

    Jews are to be protected from in Islam, and their religion preserved--The same is true of Christians.


    yeah, whatever (none / 0) (#46)
    by nathan on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 06:34:39 PM PST
    What about the famous thing - I can't remember if it's a hadith or what - talking about how the rocks and trees will call out to Muslims, demanding they kill the Jews hiding behind them?

    As for the Jews "rejecting" Jesus, whatever that means,[1] this is a central tenet of Muslim theology all right. The Jews are to be "protected," as it's called; but if you're up on Islam, this means that they are to live as second-class citizens in a Muslim-majority state, constantly humiliated, proselytized, expropriated, and scorned.

    I'm aware there's language in the Koran asking believes to treat the Jews well. Don't you dare post it without links to the contradictory language that Muslim bigots cite so happily. Explain this stuff away and you'll have a lot more credibility with me.

    [1] Even the language "the Jews rejected Jesus" is disgustingly loaded. How about "the Jews adhered to the tenets of their religion and rejected Jesus's apostasy?" That sentence is loaded the other way, to be sure, but it illustrates how a heck of a lot of Jews feel in this issue.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    come now, "yeah whatever" is a silly sub (none / 0) (#47)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 08:17:49 PM PST
    I need not explain away Muslim hypocrites, just as Christians or Jews need not explain theirs. What they practice is not what I see as Islam, nor does the vast majority of Muslims see extremism as legitamite...

    ...but that's off the topic at hand.

    >What about the famous thing...
    I've studied the Qur'an, and I've heard nothing of the sort. It is very clear, however, that Islam only allows the use of physical force in self-defense, and never excessive force (people who cite Qur'anic verse to argue against it often cut it down only to what they want people to hear).

    >Jews rejecting Jesus.
    Guess what, they also rejected many other people claiming to the Messiah in the two centuries before Jesus. The tenet in Islam is that Jesus was a legitimate prophet--it so happens that the Jews disagreed with that.

    >I dare you...
    Hehe, I dare! Sorry, I think dares are silly things that simply mean "I won't do this so I command you do to it for me" which in many cases is legit, as we don't have what we need in front of us. I am not, in fact, aware of what those bigots cite, though I am sure if I did, I could explain why and how they are wrong for you.

    >this means they are to live as second-class citizens.
    Actually, no. That is an innovation made by leaders, not by Islam. Much of Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and Buddhist history (among others) is unfortunate, but that doesn't necessarily mar what the faith teaches.

    This is probably less than what you were looking for, and I apologize, but I hope I'm not flaming :)


    Ok, here's your chance. (none / 0) (#53)
    by nathan on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 01:01:24 PM PST
    You can start by explaining away the quotes under point 7 on I know that the page itself is not representative of mainstream Islamic thought, to put it mildly, but the quote itself is plenty troubling on its own.

    I'd appreciate it if you refrain from misquoting me in the future. I didn't "dare" you to do anything. I said "Don't you dare post it without links to the contradictory language..." That's rather a large difference. I've already said that I'm aware that the Koran contains language demanding that Jews and Christians be tolerated. If you, a Muslim, claim that there is no anti-Jewish or anti-Christian language in the Koran, I'm going to have to link to it myself.

    Of course, Muslims are free to define Islamic practice. For an outsider to define the religion to its practitioners, quoting excerpts in (uncanonical) translation, is beyond theologically unsound; it's just rude and closed-minded. On the other hand, non-Muslims are obliged to form their opinions about Islam from the behaviour of its adherents, and today there's a lot of awful things going on in the Muslim world, in the name of Islam.

    I heard this story a while ago. A Palestinian went to his old family home in Israel, and met the Jews living in it. They sat down over coffee and talked. He had expected remorse or shame from them - they were living in his house! But there was nothing of the sort. Finally, he said to them, "This is my old family home. How do you feel about living here?"

    They looked at him with real anger and said, "We left behind four homes in Iraq. Go ask for one there."

    I can believe that Islam includes humanist ideas. I can even believe that most Muslims are good people further ennobled by their religion. Indeed, I have never known the practicing Muslims that I know personally to do anything cruel or dishonest.

    What I can't believe is that a significant proportion of practicing Muslims abroad just plain "got it wrong."

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    responses to the link (none / 0) (#54)
    by LoPretzel on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 03:35:53 PM PST
    this'll be straight responses...what I have noticed , though, is that alot of misinterpretation among muslims is due to adhereing to schools of thought more loyally than indivual analysis.

    1. He's taking anti-anthropomorphism too far. Yes, there are 'man-like' qualities given to God, but it's easy enough to realize that they are there to better understand him, as we don't have the capacity to understand him in his own terms. Nor do Jews ever deify any person--that's what the whole mess over Christianity was about, at least in part.

    2. I think he takes the verse out of context. Abraham preached his knowledge of God to his father and family and friends until they became open enemies to him. Abraham left them with his fellow believers (his wife, nephew and a few others). It says that people can coexist so long as there is peace between them. In other words, I can live next to any person who isn't going to kill me ;)

    3. What Jewish government has done and what Jewish people have done are two different things. Furthermore, there are people who call themselves muslim that have done similarly bad things, but all three Abrahamic religions are obliged to work toward forgiveness, even when really bad things are done, so long as all parties involve sincerely want peace.

    4. The verse in question refers to a group of Jews in Medina that ridiculed the idea of angels, contrary to their own scripture. The Jewish communities in Mecca resented the Prophet not because of the religious message, but b/c he was asked to lead and organize the city instead of them. Their argument here against the prophet stemmed more politically rather than religiously; and we must furthermore recognize that the Jews in that community don't necessisarly represent all Jews, just as no one Christian sect represents the whole (or Muslim, Hindu, etc).

    5. I would hardly call it a basic principle; it would be nice if everyone acted like good Muslims I guess (or good Jews or Christians, or good anything, for that matter), but it's hardly central to the faith. My interpretation here is that a Muslim country must allow Jews and Christians autonomy while ALSO protecting them; and that any tax leveled onto them not be oppressive.

    6. I simply disagree here. I don't think Muslim and Jewish doctrine is diametrically opposed, and there is certainly enough there that peace can be achieved without the use of force.

    7. It's rare that the Qur'an or the Prophet speaks of the Jews as an entirety--and when they do, they more often than not use the term "People of the Book" rather than the name "Jews." When that term is used, it mainly refers to a specific group of Jews, which can be determined by context. In this case, it could be that there is a militant sect of Jews that would prefer warring to peace waiting at the end of the world--but even then I'm sure there are also MANY MANY more Jewish people who want peace and deplore the idea of instigating war, no matter where it comes from.
    --------- smile, dammit :)

    now we're getting somewhere. (none / 0) (#56)
    by nathan on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 04:33:47 PM PST
    Would you like to take this to email?

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    sure! (none / 0) (#57)
    by LoPretzel on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 05:44:23 PM PST
    sure, my nick here is the same as my aim and yahoo and msn, just find me on one of those :)
    --------- smile, dammit :)

     
    other stuff. (none / 0) (#55)
    by LoPretzel on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 03:42:02 PM PST
    the 'dare' comment was meant to be a bit silly and break the ice--sorry if it wasn't clear :(. I love a good intellectual debate, but I hate that so often everyone is on edge, so I tend to try to be humorous, so that everyone at least remembers how to laugh.

    I think non-believers of any religion can look at the current situation among believers and analyze it in comparison to earlier history, as well as (especially) canon works and make an opinion on whether the intention of the founders of the religion is being fulfilled by present day believers.
    --------- smile, dammit :)

     
    Clue: everyone hates jews. (none / 0) (#87)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Dec 14th, 2001 at 11:47:19 PM PST
    Not just muslims.


    to be fair, (none / 0) (#89)
    by nathan on Sat Dec 15th, 2001 at 04:50:18 PM PST
    Some Jews would claim hatred of Jews is built into the world-view defining Judaism, as well.

    There's still no excuse for hating Jews, you malignant bigot.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

     
    Islam most hated religion (none / 0) (#124)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jun 3rd, 2002 at 01:52:24 PM PST
    Ok its even sad that i reply on your twattish comment but i wanna clear something up here:

    the Christians like Jews the Hindu's got no problem with jews

    now the muslims.........Christians dont like them much becuase of all the wars and shit they have come with since that faggy boy mohammed was born.
    Jews hate muslims cause they cant leave em alone
    ( 6 muslim countries vrs Israel and still Israel won- R0FL)
    Hindu's hate muslims
    Budhists dont like them much...

    So think bout the islam they are hated by every1 not the jews.


     
    two sects (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by NAWL on Wed Dec 5th, 2001 at 08:43:50 PM PST
    I believe you are referring to maybe the Suni (Sunni) and the Shi'a (Shi'ite). There is a third. The Ahmadi. While followers of Ahmadi consider themselves to be a part of Islam, Shi'a and Suni Muslims disagree; they consider Ahmadis to be guilty of apostasy, to be non-Islamic.

    There is another sect which is similar to the Kharijites of early Islam. You can read more about it in a early draft of a paper entitled The Theology of Osama bin Laden




    Hey, if you consider the fifth grade your senior year, what else can you be besides a pompous jackass?

     
    christian belief is *what*...? (1.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 06:39:29 PM PST
    > However the Christian belief is that Christ is > the son of God

    I thought christian beliefs were more based in what christ did and said than his parentage. Hey, but who am I to argue with colossal institutionalised religions!?!?

    i thought we were all gods' children? oh, sheep, that was it. we're all sheep. God is not a person, but his son is. His son's parents however are, by extension, sheep. Q.E.D.

    Glad I sorted that one out! Gimme back my rosaries, my faith is intact... hey, pass me some more of that jesus-flesh substitute! and a glass of his blood while you're at it! Cheers!

    good thing he tought us about symbolic cannibalism!



     
    empire. (none / 0) (#37)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 05:37:41 AM PST
    >most tolerant empire

    Then why are there few -> no christians there now?

    >no Christians or Jews in ... Mecca

    Then why do historians far more skilled and qualified than you seem to think there were?


    as a clarification... (none / 0) (#45)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 05:50:23 PM PST
    Yes, there were Christians and Jews in Mecca at the time, but there were communities of neither--mostly individual converts or people staying temporarily. and there hardly any--if any at all--representatives of the Church or the rabbinate


    okay, true (none / 0) (#50)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 05:23:09 AM PST
    ... but the original poster asserted that there were _no_ jews or christians in mecca prior to the invasion, which is a falsity to legitimise mohammed's conquests.

    it wasn't even called mecca then, sheesh.


    are you sure about that? (none / 0) (#51)
    by LoPretzel on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 09:28:02 AM PST
    I was pretty sure that Mecca was called that still...maybe you're thinking of Medina (which was called something else in the pre-islamic era)?
    --------- smile, dammit :)

    ah, you may be correct. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 11:04:51 AM PST
    it was debated here a while ago.

    nothing google can't solve, and apparently medina was the city formerly known as yathrib, not mecca.

    thanks for that -- must google up before i open my virtual trap.


     
    I have a problem with Islam. (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 06:48:37 AM PST
    If Islam is a perfect religion, then surely its followers should behave in a perfect way ? Otherwise the religion cannot be perfect. Nobody has ever explained this to me properly. It seems that Islam does not allow excommunication because to call someone a kaffir who is not, causes the accuser to cease being a Muslim.

    It seems like we need some sort of test to apply to find out who is the real Muslim and who is not. If you like a kind of 'Turing test' for believers.

    There must be some way to find out who the true believers are. Then we could ban the disbelievers from going to the mosque, and eventually they would see the error of their ways.


    perfect religion does not make perfect people... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 08:47:47 PM PST
    ...Unfortunately.

    Even if a religion is perfect (a question we won't get into) people are not; even the most closely perfect people are bound to make a few mistakes--think about all the rest of us not at all perfect people ;) Religion can motivate us to be better people, but it's up to us to actually act good.

    to the other question:
    Islam does not allow formal excommunication because there is no clergy.

    It's also a 'judge not lest ye be judged' type of thing. We may be really really certain that this person isn't a Muslim, but it's up to God to sort out that type of thing.

    Of course, we can still work against badly-behaving Muslims, ya just leave the whole "is he really this or that" question aside.


    LMAO. "Perfect" religion. Now that's c (none / 0) (#86)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Dec 14th, 2001 at 11:45:36 PM PST
    You can't use those two words in the same phrase anyway. Freak. :)


     
    your history is all wrong. (1.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 06:23:23 AM PST
    Sarah told Abraham to sleep with her mistress, and she conceived Ishmael, not Jacob. Sarah then later conceived Isaac. Isaac married Rebekah, and she had twins, Esau and Jacob. Esau was not illegitimate. Esau then sold his birthright for a meal. You severely confused the 2 stories together.


    Who gives a fuck ? Not me! (none / 0) (#39)
    by dmg on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 06:45:07 AM PST
    Esau was not illegitimate. Esau then sold his birthright for a meal. You severely confused the 2 stories together.

    Lets be honest, does anyone really care about this shit ?

    time to give a Newtonian demonstration - of a bullet, its mass and its acceleration.
    -- MC Hawking

    I care as do many others in the world (none / 0) (#126)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Jun 4th, 2002 at 10:21:07 AM PST
    Yes I care. It is very important to have historical accuracy in a story.
    Even those of the Islamic faith would want this particular detail right.



     
    Islam is NOT to blame at ALL. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 08:14:41 AM PST
    Im replying to the person who posed "Islam IS to blame".

    I am really struggling with myself by trying not to use swearings in this reply...it is the Holy month of Ramadan and I am fasting.

    yes, I am muslim and my name is Mohamed!

    I think you should go and read more books, my friend, because what you wrote about Islam is an utter lie. There are more converts to Islam every year than to any other religion, and Islamic way of life has had always been of peace and purity.

    Yes, there are those who misunderstand...and use the name of Islam for doing wrong things...but those are only the small part of the people and very particular, narrow segment of people. In no way Islam would ever justify the September 11th attack. I can bet my life on it! But there are people who do these things...

    I am sure you have your share of Christian fanatics as well.

    thank you,
    Mohamed


    RE: Islam is NOT to blame at ALL (1.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 06:52:39 PM PST
    > I am sure you have your share of Christian
    > fanatics as well.

    yeah but they didn't have tv cameras then!

    they were called 'crusaders' and things got so hard for them they had to drink their own urine for sustinence, but they managed to loot and murder all the same. the pope thought they were pretty good, by all accounts.

    i'm really quite flabberghasted that this hasn't come up before. the crusaders needlessly slaughtered millions of muslims, does *no one* remember? christianity has no veil of decency to hide behind. in fact, i think osama and some long-dead pope had a great deal in common. he's using some corrupted version of a religion to justify his mass slaughter, <drumroll endmutter="hiiithankyew"><i>and so is osama!</i></drumroll><rimshot/>


     
    Sure it's to blame. (none / 0) (#33)
    by nathan on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 06:58:08 PM PST
    Islam has always been based upon war and conquest. Its concept of "God" is impersonal and legalistic. Islam's medieval history of relative toleration in no way makes up for these grievous faults.

    I'm sorry you were born into a Muslim family, but your birth doesn't redeem your religion's historical sins.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    The premise is right: Americans are ignorant! (none / 0) (#38)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 06:29:49 AM PST
    The premise of this article is right: Americans are ignorant! Some of them keep blaming Islam, and even agree with this report, but they don't realize it was written in a sarcastic tone. So not only are they ignorant (as the favourable replies show) but they are dumb ('cause they can't read into sarcasm).


    nice try. (none / 0) (#42)
    by nathan on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 01:52:11 PM PST
    1) I am not and have never been an American.

    2) I noticed that the post was tongue-in-cheek, but I was responding to someone who took it seriously. Who can't read now?

    3) I happen to have genuine issues with Islam that are outside the scope of this discussion, so the earlier post was even more of a pleasure to write.

    You have lost. Try again some other time.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

     
    islam is to blame...? (3.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 06:31:26 PM PST
    you were doing really well with that argument up to the bit where you say "they had a miracle child".

    between you and me... this is all made up, isn't it? 'miracle child' my arse. when culture demands virgin wives and lacks contraception, miracle children are never far behind. What kind of fool still falls for this 'miracle child' nonsense anyway?

    jesus, does this piffle make me despair.

    -miracle adult


     
    Now listen here. (none / 0) (#67)
    by Hawaiian Mike on Tue Dec 11th, 2001 at 04:46:10 PM PST
    1) Allah is merely a name for God, much the same way that Jewish people to God as Yahweh. What's all this about a moon god?
    2) Islam preaches that war is immoral and should be avoided, but if it is unavoidable, it is fought with strict rules. For example, women, children, and unarmed or surrendering men may not be harmed; the Qur'an goes so far to state that a tree may not be touched if it still has one living leaf on it.
    4) By the time all that stuff in the Bible took place, Abraham and Sarah already had their names changed.
    5) It's spelled 'djinn,' and according to Islam it was the angel Gabriel (not a djinn or demon) that made the announcement to Muhammed, much in the same way that the same angel made the announcement to the virgin Mary that she was giving birth to Jesus.
    Somebody give me a ring if I made a big mistake somewhere in here.
    Hawaiian Mike
    also@inorbit.com


     
    What you got this wrong my friend (none / 0) (#75)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 12th, 2001 at 07:11:27 PM PST
    What are talking about iam muslim!First of all to show you that you know nothing and just say what comes from the top of your head.Umm mohammed dident creat islam, It's been around and to prove it islam was preasent before jesus was born.mohammed was the last messanger to humanity.second of all he dident kill them because they dident convert.Your are so dumb dont you even know your info.The jew wouldent alow them to live or practise islam in mecca wich belonged to the muslim's not jews, so they had A war and the muslims won and whent back to mecca there home land.You can see my pint on isreal fighting A war against pal because how would you feel if I bunch of people came and tried to take over your homeland,,umm duh.


    erm, you need a history lesson (none / 0) (#79)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 13th, 2001 at 11:33:44 AM PST
    > tried to take over your homeland

    Like the muslim conquests of the post 7th century era?

    >mecca which belonged to the muslims not jews

    the muslims weren't there first (hence) it doesn't belong to "the muslims". It belongs to whoever was there first and noone has the right to subjugate the inhabitants by force.


     
    Conversion or Death (none / 0) (#76)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 12th, 2001 at 11:57:20 PM PST
    .... I have but one sentence

    ... Remember the Holy Crusades?

    ....kisss my ass

    -A lover of all INTELLEGENT peoples rgardless of religion.


    crusades? (none / 0) (#80)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 13th, 2001 at 11:46:42 AM PST
    >Remember the Holy Crusades?

    The Crusades were a largely failed effort to recover lands stolen (by force, by muslims) from christians. So yes, the crusades were justified (apart from the slaughter of those in communion w/the eastern church, but they already had the once-over from islam).


    >INTELLEGENT ... rgardless

    Your attempt to gain brownie points by pretending to appeal to cultural sensitivities (aided by vilifying a just war) has been noted.


    I hope for Modern Crusades.... (none / 0) (#123)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jun 3rd, 2002 at 09:27:42 AM PST




    <Quote> Remember the Holy Crusades?

    The Crusades were a largely failed effort to recover lands stolen (by force, by muslims) from christians. So yes, the crusades were justified (apart from the slaughter of those in communion w/the eastern church, but they already had the once-over from islam).


    >INTELLEGENT ... rgardless

    Your attempt to gain brownie points by pretending to appeal to cultural sensitivities (aided by
    vilifying a just war) has been noted


    Not only were the countries stolen by force by the muslims also said: it was theire holy war against europe and holy war meant killing only the people who resist. This is completly bullshit since many Pelgrims who went visiting Jaruzalem were brutally murdered men women and children who all travelled from europe to Jaruzalem were the victime of the turkish muslims.

    This was the reason to get Jaruzalem back so the europeans wanted the routes to be safe once again.
    The first Crusade was a succes but since that day the muslims wanted jaruzalem cost what cost even IF israel gives up and kill themselves cause thats the only thing they can do since they got NO fucking country of theire own while the palastines are supported by the WHOLE middle east where they can all go and live theire life.
    but NO they want the only country the jews have.


    And if they give it away the islam wont stop the palastines wont go live in peace when they get israel, they will start fighting other countries of course not islamic countries but jewish christian or hindus countries.
    To think peace will come by giving away israel is Bull shit the jihad vrs USA,EUROPE,Russia and the rest of none-muslims will still be attacked.

    it wont stop its simply us or them but what will it take for people to understand this.....





     
    Your arguments are completely off the wall (none / 0) (#88)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 15th, 2001 at 03:16:58 PM PST
    I'm sorry - it's quite clear that you have a very distorted view of Islam.
    This is the worst case of half-truths, half-forgotten facts and outright untruths I have seen in a long time.

    I don't have time to address every mistake as there are do many, but let me have a go.

    Islam does not preach conversion or death - that's one of the most common charges made by Islamophobes, and has absolutely no basis in history. I challenge you to show any tract in the Qur'an or Sunnah to back up your claim. On the other hand, Christian history is replete with the massacre and forced conversion of native populations in the name of religion.

    The Prophet's family did not worship a moon god called Allah - that's a rather pathetic story made up by a christian missionary which has already been comprehensively debunked. In many passages of the Qur'an it is given as a sign of Allah that he has created the Sun and the Moon, the day and the night, heaven and the earth, clouds and rain and with it "brings life to an earth that is dead".

    How on earth this could be interpreted as being the work of a moon-god is beyond me.

    He didn't have a dream about an djinn. Whilst meditating, the angel Gabriel appeared to him.

    Gabriel didn't tell the Prophet to found a religion, but called him to memorise and recite passages from the Qur'an which he revealed.

    For many years, the muslim community was very small and was persecuted by the majority Pagan population and were forced to go into exile in Medina. This is in stark contrast to the claim that the prophet killed hundreds of people.
    This smacks of the propaganda directed against the early christians by the Romans - that they were murderers and child-kidnappers.

    Islam teaches conversion or death ? Sheer nonsense - show the evidence in any Qur'anic text or any book of Sunnah.

    I could go on, but I don't think there's much point.

    I hope that your views are a result of reading the wrong material - propaganda from anti-Islam missionaries or possibly from Israel - rather than from malice.

    I would urge you to read the Qur'an or any introductory book on Islam WRITTEN BY A MUSLIM. Then your arguments would be rooted on less shaky foundations.


     
    Islam is the enemy (none / 0) (#113)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jan 14th, 2002 at 03:22:14 PM PST
    I am a muslim from Bangladesh,and what you have just said is 100 percent incorrect.Islam is a religion of peace.Muhammed never had dreams like those and he had never killed and jews or christians. I don't know where you got this idead from, but all i know is that those things you said are wrong and offensive.


     
    Wanna know the Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (none / 0) (#115)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 09:31:34 PM PST
    Hay man i think none of you know Islam and just comments on it.Lets give some examples of christians.
    1.You love people against the nature but Islam doesn't propose that.
    2.You kill innocent people and examples are in millions you cannot even count your self.
    3.Fucking in other's business is your hobby.
    4.First you build arms factories in Iraq and now when you have done with Iraq and Iran and also Kuwait now you put restrictions on them and bomb the medicine factory in Sudan how rash is chritianty and Judaism.
    5.You go back on your words.Examples
    5.1 1982 Afghan war,A billionaire rose from middle east named Usama-Bin-Laden, you trained him i mean CIA and FBI.he was then the hero and also talibans were the Mujahidians and Nothern Allainces were the culprits.Islam never said to go back on words
    and many many more..................
    i will always consolidate people died on 11th Sep.which by no means an Islamic act and you should differentiate between Islam and terrorism.

    My fucking friends do read carefully and try to know islam by getting into it not just staying away from it(means by reading)

    A Muslim writer


     
    Islam = perfect ? (none / 0) (#122)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jun 3rd, 2002 at 09:05:52 AM PST
    The Islam is 1 if not th� most hostile religion towards other religions.

    Many of them hate jewish and the reason: the daily tragedies -> Israel vrs the Palastines.
    Which clearly shows how much they care for other religions, on the (mollucs) the christians are getting slaughtered my the muslims - not a war but just muslims clearing the islands from all christians...

    And where is theire bleeding heart for them as I said they ONLY care for theire religion, But still the Christians dont hate all the muslims.

    not 2 mention the 2nd biggest group of jews live in Morroco and no muslim complains there.
    Its almost like they cant do anything else then fight wars Pakistan vrs India , mollucs,Israel etc
    even in holland Hindus were threatend (by an Islamic group) not to vote on some political parties otherwise they would be killed raped etc.

    This is just another example how democratic the Islam is as a religion, of course 1 group of extremists doesnt represent a religion but they dont allow so many things (like other religions) and the fact that they actually allow to kill the enemies of "ALLAH" shows theire religion is so middle aged since we as people who believe differently from the islam are all nme's of allah.

    I dont expect people will be suprised of what i post here since its all old news...








     
    your an idiot that shood burn in hell (none / 0) (#125)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jun 3rd, 2002 at 05:33:18 PM PST
    islam never practiced conversion or death u fuckin whore


     
    Just read me? (3.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 07:12:50 PM PST
    I only have a couple things to say. First off, my best friend IS an Islam. He's really cool too. And you know what else, they treat me very nicely, the whole family of 10, and another one coming on it's way. Personally, i don't blame any countries, or hate them. I just hate the people that are included in this plan of Osama's. (At least this is what i think it's about) So, maybe we should also stop hating every Islam we meet, it's stupid not to at least give them a chance. Besides, aren't all people created equal?


    hate hate every where (none / 0) (#118)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Feb 3rd, 2002 at 02:51:10 PM PST
    I fully agree with you.

    Just curious wasn't there an American citizen involve in this attack too? Does this mean we hate and despise all Americans. Oh yeah there was and Australian too - this could be rather difficult as I am and Asuatralian and my wife to be is an American - I guess our family is stuffed from the out set then.

    It is about time we all focused on the individuals how started this cowedly act and not on the countries from which they came.


     
    Semites are the problem, PNC the answer (4.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 4th, 2001 at 07:45:38 PM PST
    The Semetic Problem has a solution, and that solution is PNC. Hear me out.

    Many of you may be wondering what Osama Bin Laden was hoping to communicate to the United States by killing tens of thousands of people. I propose that his extraorinarily effective message was this:

    Semetic people from the Middle East do not deserve protection from genocide.

    He did his best to communicate this message, and it is our duty to do our best to listen, and understand. Using public transportation as a weapon, he attempted to publicly slaughter more Americans than were killed in the Vietnam War by immolation, and attempted to kill everone in our government. Don't forget that both NY and Washington were failures by his standards: the planes hit too high, allowing many to escape, and Washington was just totally botched. Bin Laden intended to immolate more Americans than died in Vietnam and to kill everyone in our government without declaring war - all in the most cowardly and Internationally Illegal manner possible.

    A culture capable of fostering this idea is, quite obviously, a culture in need of change. In the 1940's, Japan & Germany were home to two cultures in need of change. Many argued that they would come around to reason if we left them alone. I won't go into that.

    Today, Germany is the first culture to speak out against racial purification attempts, Japan the first to speak out against Imperialism. Both learned cultural lessons. However, the cost of teaching them these lessons was immense for both them and for us. To make Japan understand - to make Germany understand - required the wholesale slaughter of millions of their citizens. This fact remains unchanged, today.

    What has changed is that the cost for America need not be immense. While we are dire need of creating cultural change in the Middle East, we have the advantage of a large nuclear arsenal with which to accomplish this change. We can effectively fight World War II in a day, without losing a single American life. The lives that must be lost in the middle east are already lost, due to their cultural error - but technology allows us to save the lives of the Americans who would normally have to go to the Middle East and perform this task manually.

    It is time for us to employ nuclear technology to save American lives and to effect cultural change. We must make the Middle East a region which is the first to speak out against terrorism - just as Germany and Japan speak out against their former crimes. We must accomplish this task in the time-honored manner: wholesale slaughter of civilian populations.

    The only remaining question is which countries should be vaporized. The short list would appear to be Saudi Arabia (the home of Bin Laden), as well as Afghanistan and Iraq. But those details are out of place in this discussion.

    Please, write your congressman in favor of Positive Nuclear Correction.




    Hmmmmm (none / 0) (#110)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jan 11th, 2002 at 11:59:17 PM PST
    This reply was brought to you by your friendly local psycho.


     
    Do we really know who has the wrong point of view? (none / 0) (#117)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Feb 3rd, 2002 at 02:46:23 PM PST
    Why do so many people feel that their point of view and there way of life is so correct? I come from a country that had one part of the population think this - and because of it we now have lost an entire race of humans. The Tasmanian indigenous popultion were completely wiped out - we have only a vague shadow of their culture left.

    Although it may hurt to say and read this - WHAT IF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is the one that needs a change of view?

    Perhaps it is that countries foreign policy that is causing the problems - for it is written the you will Reep what you Sow.


     
    Semites are the problem, PNC the answer (none / 0) (#121)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Apr 7th, 2002 at 11:46:59 PM PST
    How about this solution....

    build a large wall around the usa...
    coat the inside of this wall with mirrors..
    coat the outside of this wall with posters for "Everybody loves Raymond" "Friends" "that's my bush" et all...

    this solution will please everybody...

    the US civilians can look at the mirrors and know that they are safe with their own kind...

    and the rest of us can look at the wall and laugh at the deluded fools inside...

    regards,

    mossrocket
    australia

    ps - try and bomb me you cowards - I live next to the US embassy...


     
    What in the world?? (2.50 / 2) (#18)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 5th, 2001 at 12:33:21 PM PST
    Man, post by post I start to see that the people here need proffesional help.
    First that nutcase with "my son is a hacker" and all the wrong statements, now this nazi scum coming and tromping about?
    What the hell is wrong with this place?
    I know authority.net make fun of stuff, but COME'ON!
    Calling macromedia's flash a hacker program and AMD a soviet plot, dumb as hell for itself, is one thing.
    But when a nazi pice of trash that sacrifice cats at night and worship devil with a mastash like that comes and start spewing shit unstopably, that's over the limit of good taste.
    If these whores will keep at this, not only will I encourage communities to ban it, open legal procedures against this site, its hosts and anyone in contact, I'll also start my own personal floodage of TRUE FACTS which display all your rednecked american pride in a very VERY bad light.
    You and your stupid pride have caused more crissies to the entire world then any of the little country's local fueds.
    Becouse when YOU fuck up, it's in globalic scale with globalic consequences.
    And just how do you think that osama bin lardass and his precious taliban got to control afganistan in the first place?
    Maybe you should head over to your nice govermental friends, the CIA, and ask them how your stupid fear of the so called "red menace" spawned power for these hooliganic monsters.

    P.S.
    The Islamic religen as itself, actuall preaches for peace, those terrorist psycopaths are religious fanatics who in very much like the old christian crusades, engaged in their own holy war of "only islam worshippers live and rest die" called Jihad.
    Those are the ones who go blow up in many places, not becouse of some ideal of their own country, and they can't be talked to either.
    The only thing they care about is that only religen to exist be Islam (whether or not they brake just about any rule in the Islam to get there doesnt matter to them).


     
    An intelligent, well-reasoned proposal! (4.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 06:14:40 PM PST
    I would like to congratulate you on your intelligent, calm, and well-reasoned proposal. Not only do you have an excellent grasp of geopolitics, but your writing style shows excellent intelligence.

    However, I do not believe that you go far enough. Every single one of the wars that the United States have fought have been against other nations. (I include, of course, the Confederacy as another nation.) Indeed, every single war ever fought has been either between the United States and another nation, or between two foreign nations.

    Therefore, as a peace-loving citizen of our great country, I propose that we create a much simpler virus than the one that you propose: rather than striking all Semites, we simply have the virus target all non-Americans.

    Without foreign countries, there can be no war. Without foreign countries, there is no need for economic assistance to poorer nations. This would end Communism and military dictatorships. It would ensure that all people of the world would have all of the rights afforded to us. There would be an immediate end to the 'Star Wars' missile program. Border patrols would become unnecessary.

    Business would immediately support it, since the dividends would be greater than the 'peace' dividend at the end of the Cold War. There would be no need for export or import taxes.

    Thank you for your time.


    what!? (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 03:49:24 AM PST
    you sir, are a completely and utterly horrible person. may your shack in montana spontaneously explode. In no possible way could you ever claim to be a peace loving individual and support the massive killings of the world populace outside of the United States.


    duh (none / 0) (#70)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 12th, 2001 at 05:40:02 AM PST
    It's called sarcasm. He is obviously making fun of the writer and his rasicts and evil ideas.


     
    Wouldn't it be easier.... (none / 0) (#91)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Dec 16th, 2001 at 11:53:25 AM PST
    To just get rid of America? I mean, logically, that'd serve the same effect, America wouldn't get in any more wars.


     
    Nice may it be... (none / 0) (#127)
    by Fako on Thu Jul 25th, 2002 at 10:01:29 PM PST
    It seems like a... well... a point of view. Many of people like me, not onlya defender of human rights but also a non-american may not like it, but its still valid. You havent taken into consideration something, though.
    Americans is flooded and inhabited by FOREIGNERS! The original aborigens that populated this placed were sistematically killed reduced and tortured by foreigners which might be very well be your grandgrandgrandgrandgrandgrandgrandgrandparents. The original americans are now a minority, America is made by foreigners. So you are proposing to kill everybody thats not from there, which would actually be everybody since theres no specifical genetics of american.



     
    And they don't even have decent golf over there! (2.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Harry Putter on Thu Dec 6th, 2001 at 10:46:37 PM PST
    I mean, the whole damn place is one gigantic sandtrap! How can you play a decent game of golf when every stroke lands in the bunker? How can you have any respect for people who don't have respect for the venerable and honorable game of golf!

    -- FORE!

    Excellent reasoning! (none / 0) (#120)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 3rd, 2002 at 12:26:29 AM PST
    Impressive. I must agree that any terrain that is unsuitable for golf must be immediately disposed of.
    The problem you mentioned regarding the inevitable bunker shot makes me so mad I wish I could launch the nuclear weapons myself.
    Of course, I am speaking in total irony/sarcasm - as I hope the fuckwitt who wrote the original text was. Your comment perfectly shows the true level of intelligence and reasoning behind supporters of nuclear strategies.


     
    did dogs fly planes into the WTC? (nt) (none / 0) (#36)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 03:47:57 AM PST
    (nt) = NO TEXT!!!


     
    What's ignorant is... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 8th, 2001 at 07:46:17 AM PST
    I have not read your entire article. And I will not, because it is clearly biased to begin with: "Americans are ignorant...". Right from the start you're making a blanket stament of the same kind you're trying to refute.

    Nice try.


     
    Islam is NOT a problem at all. (none / 0) (#58)
    by rockwell on Sun Dec 9th, 2001 at 10:43:40 PM PST
    Sometimes it is quite disheartening to note that people tend to judge other people either because of their religion, race, color of the skin and practically their way of life.Islam is like any other religion follows a doctrine which guides them in their everyday lives and like any other religions may it be Buddhism , Hinduism, Christianity... and i dont know what else... Few lost sheeps are always present... Bunch of misguided and close minded subjects...We should not judge others for something they havent done.. Instead we should be more cautious and give time to think that their are only few ROTTEN EGGS and that we should not include the good ones...Lets just hope that all misguided subjects in all religion realizes that they are wrong and hope that in the end find the real meaning of living a life peacefully...


    Definitely. (none / 0) (#59)
    by tkatchev on Mon Dec 10th, 2001 at 06:18:40 AM PST
    Thanks for the fresh perspective. Always good to read something you haven't read a few million times before already. Really, I mean it. :)


    --
    Peace and much love...




     
    perhaps... (none / 0) (#60)
    by nathan on Mon Dec 10th, 2001 at 07:06:38 AM PST
    Bonghits will help with your dazzling vision of world peace.

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

     
    otoh perhaps... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Dec 10th, 2001 at 01:05:50 PM PST
    ...you need to crawl out of your idealistic world and read something like
    http://mypage.bluewin.ch/ameland/LecturesE.html.


     
    Typical Geek is a fool (none / 0) (#61)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Dec 10th, 2001 at 12:14:25 PM PST
    I quote: "Americans are ignorant, with their constant ranting to bomb mosques and kill Muslims. Islam is not the enemy."

    Apparently you don't realize that when you make broad generalizations like Americans are ignorant that your no better then the terrorists. I say that because they say Americans are the enemy and no matter your political views, religion, age, or sex you are a target in their eyes.

    The only broad generalization you can make about Americans is that Americans are Americans. No other broad generalization will hold up except for the geographical one.

    I can only pray that you people take his post with a grain of salt. Those who believe typical geek need to get their head examined as those who distrust all Muslims are of the minority and are the fanatics.

    Go back to CNN or Fox News and get the news and make your own opinions don't listen to this fool.


    oy... (none / 0) (#64)
    by LoPretzel on Mon Dec 10th, 2001 at 02:57:24 PM PST
    <statement of the obvious>

    THIS IS SATIRE!

    </statement of the obvious>
    --------- smile, dammit :)

    so you're saying... it's funny because it's true.. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 07:29:58 AM PST
    Hahaha *tears of laughter*


     
    Ebola (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Dec 10th, 2001 at 02:30:11 PM PST
    Perhaps a hemorhagic fever like Anthrax or Ebola could be developed that targets the stupid genotype, focusing on the lack of anything between their ears. True, it may cause a genocidal plague resulting in one billions deaths (or maybe one, yours), but it may also save off World War III.

    Urzahil X


    Ebola (none / 0) (#119)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Apr 3rd, 2002 at 12:10:07 AM PST
    Right on!
    This gimp just basically said "lets kill everyone that kills"
    Thats as hypocritical as it gets.


     
    A Question (none / 0) (#65)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 11th, 2001 at 06:22:32 AM PST
    I have a question that maybe a Muslim can answer.

    First to set out what I think I know.

    Muslims believe that Jesus was a valid prophet of God or Allah, even if he was not His son.

    Jesus's most important message was that we should "love our neighbors as ourselves."

    Mohammad was first a prophet, but also a military leader who brought Islam to the nations he conquered.

    My qusetion is, if Mohammad and Jesus both speak for the same Supreme Being how can their roles be so different?

    Jesus refused to be the militant Messiah that the Jewish zealots wanted and never did harm to a fellow human. Mohammad's actions, no matter how you look at them as nesessary or right, involve the deaths of his enemies.

    I know that Muslims think that the message of Jesus was confused over time, and that is why they are so careful with their own texts, but I cannot believe that this most basic idea of pacifism could have been the result of time and error.

    I would welcome any comments concerning this discrepancy.


    this might be it? (none / 0) (#66)
    by LoPretzel on Tue Dec 11th, 2001 at 03:57:56 PM PST
    ("Mohammad's actions, no matter how you look at them as nesessary or right, involve the deaths of his enemies." The statement is only half true, and is misleading nonetheless...He had the choice between allowing or not allowing his followers to defend themselves against death, their wives against rape, and their children against slavery. He did not seek to kill his enemies; rather, they died as a result of their own hatred and intolerance.)


    About Jesus:
    1. Jesus was most likely an Essene, not a Zealot, and therefore didn't want to be fighting the Romans in the first place.
    2. Romans believed that all legitimate religion was ancient, and so they could accept and allow the practice of Judaism. Jesus did not see himself as starting a new religion, but clarifying and reforming the current one, so he did not believe his followers would be persecuted--or, at the very least, he didn't believe that they would be wiped out.
    3. Passive reisistance COULD work, so it was the right way.

    About Mohammed:
    1. Mohammed was a member of the largest tribe in Mecca, but he was a "hanif"--a monotheist among polytheists (that's not an /exact/ translation, but that's basically it).
    2. These people-hanifs-were tolerated because they didn't hamper idol worshipping, which brought in alot of revenue for the Mecca leaders. However, when he began his ministry of Islam, he spoke out strongly against the leaders, of worshipping idols and other common practices during the time. While he found many followers and interested others, it was not nearly enough to stand successfully against the leadership.
    3. Meccans were soon encouraged to harrass, assault, and swindle these first Muslims, and it finally got bad enough that Mohammed decided to take his followers to Medina (where he was invited to take lead of the entire community). The Meccans weren't finished with the Muslims and wanted to destroy each one of them.
    4. Mohammed knew that war was approaching. He could choose not to resist, and allow the Meccans to kill every last Muslim or he could chose to fight in defense. Fleeing was not possibile. With the Byzantines and Persians to the north and east, a sea to the west and the Meccans south, there was simply no place to go.
    5. Mohammad used war and physical force as a last resort, to prevent the total annihilation of those he protected and represented (Muslim and non-Muslim). The Qur'an permits it, but not as aggression, and Muslims must stop as soon as their opponents ask for peace.

    If Jesus and Mohammed had swapped placed but still used their own messages, they both--and their followers--would have all been hunted down and killed.

    The long and short of it is that Mohammed had to choose between survival and the complete genocide of his followers--Jesus never had to worry about that sort of thing, and that's why different approaches were taken.

    --------- smile, dammit :)

    A Response (none / 0) (#83)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Dec 14th, 2001 at 04:08:58 PM PST
    First I would like to apologize for misspelling Mohammed's name.

    Your points are all very valid, but I would object to the statement:

    "He did not seek to kill his enemies; rather, they died as a result of their own hatred and intolerance."

    The first part of it I can agree with, but the second seems to try to excuse Mohammed's actions. Even if I kill a man or a woman in pure self-defense, I am still responsible for that person's death.

    Also, as you said, Mecca and Medina are on the Red Sea, which can be seen as a highway, rather than a barrier. In fact, Mohammed's followers could have spread Islam across that area as the Apostles did with Christianity in the Mediterranean. That was one of the reasons that Christianity became so strong in Europe, even though Christ was killed. St. Peter and St. Paul are almost as important as Jesus Himself for their work as missionaries.

    I still see it as boiling down to Jesus, as a prophet of God (Allah) (and as perhaps His son), advocating peaceful teaching above all else even at the expense of his own life, and Mohammed, equally a prophet of Allah (God), accepting violence as a way to preserve his people. Perhaps the atlernative I have suggested is not feasable, I don't know (I am, after all, just in high school), but I hope someone will let me know.


     
    Americans ARE ignorant (none / 0) (#68)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 11th, 2001 at 05:02:47 PM PST
    Who think Hong kong is the capital of Japan, and Sony is the political party in government. And, UK is somewhere off the coast of Britain.

    Most americans ARE morons. including dubya. The "land of the free" recently banned a film where a jewish man takes into Nazism. Which is based on a true story - the life of this guy in the 60s. land of the free indeed.

    The current policy is, if the police spot a muslim speeding, arrest him for terrorism.

    Its not all their fault though. With history like "the second worldwar started with pearl harbour" being taught in schools who can blame them?

    Also they refuse to learn from their past mistakes. Of course some idiot is gonna blow up a building or two. Besides, its not like thats gonna make a huge difference to the annual death rate in the US.

    Americans are morons, Americans are ignorant.

    One other thing. Todays "Americans" are ALL immigrants. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS who raped and murdered real americans who are dubbed Red Indians.


    wow (none / 0) (#82)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Dec 14th, 2001 at 03:19:50 PM PST
    you have truly mad an ass of yourself. I love the sweeping generalization, and lack of knowaldge on the subject. "Americans are morons, Americans are ignorant" I love this quote it says so much you speak about a few americans no all 280million of us.. oh and red indians BUAHAHAH that is great.. while you say this almost everyone in america is so PC that they are constantly try to call a people who wish to distinguish themselves by there correct name... indian, native americans, or even the name of their tribe, I have never heard the term red indians out of anyones mouth who claims a breath of intelligence. I am really sorry you hold such a low opinion of a country that you seemingly haven't even been to, you are really missing out on a lot




     
    THE ANSWER OF THE "JUDE UNTERMENSCH" (none / 0) (#69)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Dec 11th, 2001 at 05:48:38 PM PST
    Suddenly I am your enemy, eh ? I am that "ugly semite" that you hate so much. I am writing this only couple of days after that bus was blown-up by the suicide-bomber only about 500 meters from my home. I was on the exact place where it happened only 3 or 4 minutes before the explosion. Still shivering...
    This is to all those western intellectuals who often talk about "human rights" , "freedom" , "democracy" etc.
    YOU CAN CHOKE ON YOUR FUCKIN' DEMOCRACY, LIBERAL BASTARDS !!!
    GIVE YOUR FUCKIN' "Nobel peace prize" TO THE TERRORISTS ! KEEP CONVINCING YOURSELF THAT ISLAM IS "PEACE". CONTINUE CALLING WARS - "PEACE PROCESS"! DEFEND THE "HUMAN" RIGHTS OF THE TERRORISTS TO KILL YOU !
    Y O U F U C K I N G " P E A C E K E E P E R S" !
    CONTINUE TO ELECT HITLERS TO POWER. YOU FASCIST SCUM !!!!!
    I am saying that because my mother lost all her family either on the WWII frontline fighting against "civilized aryan european nation" or in starving Leningrad encircled by the Wehrmacht and under constant bombardment. I lost one of my friends in the attack on New York and another was killed here in Israel when one of those "peaceful muslims" blew up in that disco-club full of kids.
    And don't start that "occupation" crap again.
    The overwhelming majority of my neighbours are arabs and we all respect each other and help each other !

    I live in Haifa, Israel. Born in St.Petersburg, Russia in 1974 and an Israeli citizen since 1990.



    Fuckin Semite (none / 0) (#72)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 12th, 2001 at 03:51:17 PM PST
    Oh fuck you, you fuckin semite. You should be fuckin greatful you've been gettin help from America. You're fuckin fighting with fuckin american weapons for fuck sake. And you're fighting against rocks and stones and and running over 6yr old girls with your tanks still fuckin complaining? If it wasn't for us, you'd be covered head to toe and be speaking arabic. Be greatful you fucking semite.

    Too bad nobodies designing a semite seeking daisy cutter bomb. maybe we should drop a dozen of those in haifa.

    That'd be cool.


    You do realise that Arabs are Semites? (nt) (none / 0) (#92)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Dec 16th, 2001 at 12:20:59 PM PST



     
    So you're an immigrant? (none / 0) (#74)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 12th, 2001 at 05:25:07 PM PST
    What is more Fascist than taking over someone elses land, marginalising, and brutalising the natives, all because a 2000 year old fairytale says its yours.

    This isn't about racism, it's about a state that ranks with some of the most brutal regimes in the world in its treatment of its displaced natives.

    If Islam is the problem, then Judaism is the problem too. And at least you can convert to Islam.


    Converting to Judaism. (none / 0) (#77)
    by tkatchev on Thu Dec 13th, 2001 at 05:23:45 AM PST
    It's possible, and actually quite easy. All you have to do is talk to your neighborhood rabbi to prove your seriousness, then get circumcised. Simple.


    --
    Peace and much love...




     
    Oh, like the Islamic conquests of the 7th century? (none / 0) (#93)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Dec 16th, 2001 at 12:24:12 PM PST



     
    RE: So you're an immigrant? (none / 0) (#106)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 04:57:15 PM PST
    Remember, this is American taxpayer money at work in Israel... indeed we are the Great Satan. Its too bad most Americans have no idea about their own foreign policy.


     
    I think the sad thing in all this... (none / 0) (#84)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Dec 14th, 2001 at 11:30:56 PM PST
    is that the bomb a few meters from your house ended up missing you. (And taking out so few Israeli trash to boot.)

    Oh well. Try try again, I suppose.

    Fucking Israeli retards. Can't even see why they're so despised.


     
    So full of hate and anger.... (none / 0) (#102)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 07:41:12 AM PST
    It just makes me sad... How many generations of selective breeding did it take to produce this rotweiler...


     
    Someone put him out of his misery... (none / 0) (#103)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 07:43:30 AM PST
    He is so full of rage and pain.

    Knowledge comes with death's release.


     
    RE: THE ANSWER OF THE "JUDE UNTERMENSCH" (none / 0) (#105)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 04:54:56 PM PST
    Maybe, stop conquering their land. Then they won't need to fight you. Remember, Israel started this particular conflict, not the other way around.


     
    None of you understand.. (none / 0) (#131)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Aug 2nd, 2002 at 06:33:29 AM PST
    I live in America, and you would think I would be offended by what he's saying.. But he is right to some extent. We walk around giving the terrorists who deliberately want to kill us all kinds of rights.
    But, on to what I wanted to say. All of you guys who are calling this guy an idiot, or saying he should be put to death, have absolutely no idea what it is like to be in his "shoes". For the other Americans out there, how mad and upset were you when the world trade center got hit by those planes?
    This guy has had to live through that kind of terror for years. You never know what day another suicide bomber might come, or if it might be you OR your family that gets killed by him. I guarantee that, if you had lost loved family members to one of them, you wouldn't be walking around shouting "Islam is peace, let's give the terrorists a hug".


     
    Dumb (none / 0) (#71)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 12th, 2001 at 01:01:18 PM PST
    So. . . . You finally figure out after 80 or so speeches by leaders in America that "Islam isn't the enemy" you deserve a sticker for finally figuring that one out. George W. Bush has said about a hundred times that "Islamic people are not the enemy". Let that soak in for about 10 min longer and maybe some intelligent writing may come out of you.


    No... ofcourse islam isn't the enemy (none / 0) (#81)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 13th, 2001 at 04:32:04 PM PST
    We're just bombing them cause theres lots of extra old bombs left over, and now with us pulling out of the ABM treaty, we're gonna make newer more potent bombs with more killing power.

    One of those will kill something like a million muslims... ...I mean terrorists where they are dropped.


     
    the Irony Gene (none / 0) (#73)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Dec 12th, 2001 at 05:13:33 PM PST
    Americans - please listen. Your government has been poisoning your water supplies for years with an enzyme that destroys the gene responsible for recognising and appreciating irony.


    Enzyme? (none / 0) (#78)
    by tkatchev on Thu Dec 13th, 2001 at 05:28:26 AM PST
    No, it's the mineral called "fluoride" -- it strengthens your teeth against cavities at the expense of wiping out your irony receptors.


    --
    Peace and much love...




     
    Politically-correct retards that actually buy this (none / 0) (#85)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Dec 14th, 2001 at 11:34:25 PM PST
    ...shit, about "Islam not being the problem", really should be the next ones that muslim terrorists take out. 2 birds with one stone and all.

    Fucking hell, if there's anything just a little more deluded than a muslim, it's those few retard americans that need to be destroyed themselves before they realize an actual threat.

    Islam IS the enemy. Get it through your fucking ignorant, brainwashed heads already. Read and think for once in your lives, instead of letting the tv and others think for you. Stupid bastards.


    Re: Politically-correct retards that actually buy (none / 0) (#104)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 04:48:56 PM PST
    Have you watched the news at all? They're the ones saying it. Its always "Muslim terrorists" to blame. It sounds like you're the one repeating the Televitz.

    Check out America's foriegn policy in that region for the past 50 years or so. Then, maybe you'll realise why we are "the Great Satan". Of course, TV won't tell you that.

    I like what you said in the last paragragh - minus the "Islam is the enemy" bit. So take your own advice and start reading.


     
    Your All Going To Die (none / 0) (#90)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Dec 15th, 2001 at 09:54:22 PM PST
    Its a fact that all those fucking islam bastards and people living near Afganafuck are going to get their limbs spread accross the shitty land. Just remember that. You dumbass whores like mohemed dont mess with the USA or your gonna get fucking mother sluts.


    I could play sonatas on a viola... (none / 0) (#94)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Dec 16th, 2001 at 07:30:23 PM PST
    Much like the article did this genius.

    ...Very well.


    sonatas? (none / 0) (#96)
    by nathan on Mon Dec 17th, 2001 at 05:47:13 PM PST
    I call BS. Which sonatas are you thinking of? That Rebecca Clarke piece, while pleasant enough, is singular, not plural.

    On another topic, what's the difference between a seamstress and a violist?

    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

    Well... (none / 0) (#97)
    by hauntedattics on Tue Dec 18th, 2001 at 01:08:44 PM PST
    there must be some other works, otherwise, what is Zukerman doing when he duets with Itzhak?

    Is it that the seamstress can actually vibrate?





    Pinky (none / 0) (#98)
    by nathan on Tue Dec 18th, 2001 at 06:28:11 PM PST
    I'm not aware of any significant solo repertoire for violin and viola. To the best of my knowledge, they play the Mozart Sinfonia Concertante, the Handel-Halvorsen Passacaglia, the Mozart Duos, and maybe the Martinu Madrigals (not sure about that last one.) They also play Wieniawski 2-violin caprices, alternating on the solos.

    I don't know about your seamstress - if she's vibrating, perhaps she needs medical attention. The difference is that the seamstress tucks up the frills.

    All the best,
    Nathan
    --
    Li'l Sis: Yo, that's a real grey area. Even by my lax standards.

     
    Kill them all, and dont bother to sort them out (none / 0) (#95)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Dec 17th, 2001 at 01:44:36 AM PST
    Motherfokers should all stay in there own country and stop messin with us. they come over here and fuck with our supplies and then wine and moan about there country being poor. We should close our borders and bomb the hell out of all of them over there


     
    Wow, a REAL anti-semite (none / 0) (#99)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 07:25:05 AM PST
    Amazing, on adequacy.org, I have found a true-to-god anti-semite, not a mere, stupid, red-neck jew-hater.


     
    An interesting fact.... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Dec 20th, 2001 at 07:26:28 AM PST
    Did you know, an intersting fact is that your average arab can live for an ENTIRE year on just one grain of rice? Can you imagine that? An entire year!


    Correction (none / 0) (#130)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Jul 29th, 2002 at 02:59:17 AM PST
    No, that's the mosquito.


     
    Typical... (none / 0) (#107)
    by m0rzo on Fri Dec 21st, 2001 at 01:12:34 PM PST
    of the kind of muppet that continuously posts to this web site.
    If this is meant to be funny, it's not. Taxi for the author. If it's meant to be serious, I can without a doubt dismiss you as a fool that needs immediate treatment.
    You knew one Muslim person and she personifies every "Semite" there on in your life? Isn't that a little bit racist?
    If she adhered totally to her religion then it's doubtful she would behave like she did. That's because Islam is a bastardized and repressive religion not just to women but to all men. For a more detailed, and, may I add, authoritive analysis of this please check out "Satanic Verses" by one Salman Rushdie.
    It earned him a distinguished fatwah so it's sure to be a good read.



     
    Right (2.50 / 2) (#108)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 9th, 2002 at 05:50:46 PM PST
    How about we castrate your stupid ass and then we won't have any more air-headed, simple-minded dolts inbreeding in Alabama. Get an education, and try not to make a complete and bumbling FOOL of yourself. Semites are to blame? But of COURSE! HAHA, NATURALLY they are!!! Blame EVERYTHING on them!! Hope you burn in hell, idiot.


     
    <Sigh> (none / 0) (#109)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Jan 11th, 2002 at 05:49:03 PM PST
    As much as I have a dislike for the current Israeli policies and their backers (including the US), this inital post is a disgrace. The author seems to have an extremely distorted view of politics and genetics. Genelogy shows that race has nothing to do with genes. If you studied anything you'd know its a great misconception. I won't even bother taking apart his political ideas. What are the chances that whoever wrote this is sitting in a nice fat house, in typical American suburbia spewing out such crap?

    Yes, Israel, which I do believe is the cause of many problems, needs to be whipped into shape, but ethnic cleansing is not the way to go about it. You can't generalise an entire group in such a manner (you do know that there are Israelis who constantly condemn their government's actions, don't you?) Perhaps if we stopped forcing our own cultural, social and politic values on so many of these Arabic states, the killing would calm down.




     
    HOW DARE YOU CALL US IGNORANT !!! (none / 0) (#111)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 10:49:41 PM PST
    WE ARE NOT THE ONES ENSLAVING AFRICANS TODAY - MUSLIMS ARE WE ARE NOT THE ONES READ BOOKS THAT PROMOTE BEATING WOMEN - THE QUARAN DOES. "WHEN YOU BEAT YOUR WIFE DON'T HIT HER TOO HARD LEST SHE EXPIRE." WE ARE NOT NATION THAT FORCES ITS PEOPLE TO BELIEVE A CERTAIN RELIGON OR ELSE BE KILLED OR JAILED - MOST ISLAMIC COUNTRIES DO SUCH AS SUDAN, LIBYA IRAN IRAQ, YEMEN, PAKISTAN,TAJIKSTAN, OMAN, SOMALIA, EGYPT, MAURIANTIA, TUNINIA, UAE, MORACCO, INDONESIA, ETC. PEOPLE FORCE OTHERS TO SUBMIT TO THEIR WISHES THROUGH METHODS OF FEAR, BECAUSE THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS VIEWPOINT LACKS THE CREDIBILITY TO STAND ON ITS OWN. http://muhammadanism.org/News/default.htm#Jihad


     
    HOW DARE YOU CALL US IGNORANT!!! GO BACK HOME!!! (none / 0) (#112)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 13th, 2002 at 10:56:44 PM PST
    WE ARE NOT THE ONES ENSLAVING AFRICANS TODAY - MUSLIMS ARE. WE ARE NOT THE ONES WHO READ BOOKS THAT PROMOTE BEATING WOMEN - THE QUARAN DOES. "WHEN YOU BEAT YOUR WIFE DON'T HIT HER TOO HARD LEST SHE EXPIRE." WE ARE NOT A NATION THAT FORCES ITS PEOPLE TO BELIEVE A CERTAIN RELIGON OR ELSE BE KILLED OR JAILED - MOST ISLAMIC COUNTRIES DO. SUCH AS SUDAN, LIBYA IRAN IRAQ, YEMEN, PAKISTAN, TAJIKSTAN, OMAN, SOMALIA, EGYPT, MAURIANTIA, TUNSINIA, UAE, MORACCO, INDONESIA, ETC. PEOPLE WHO FORCE OTHERS TO SUBMIT TO THEIR WISHES THROUGH METHODS OF FEAR, DO SO BECAUSE THEIR OWN RELIGIOUS VIEWPOINT LACKS THE CREDIBILITY TO STAND ON ITS OWN. http://muhammadanism.org/News/default.htm#Jihad


     
    God is Great (none / 0) (#114)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 16th, 2002 at 07:26:04 AM PST
    Islam is not "Mohammedism"...true he is the last Prophet..but he was an ordinary being. He have him as an example; Muslims believe in all prophets of the Old and the New testaments of the Judaic and Christian Bibles. Ibrahim (Abraham) is the actual founder of Islam. Think of the Quran as the "Last Testament"

    The issue at large is American prejudice against Arabs in the Middle East. Sure, it was only with US pressure that the British left Palestine. Truman and his administration were coerced by influential Jews. American foregin policy has always been pro-Israeli. What about the Arabs who have lived there for countless generations?

    Some say that the current conflict is one bettween Jews and Muslims that has lasted for thousands of years. You're wrong; the only conflict i see lsting for that long is between Jews and Christians. Do you remember the holocaust?? Find out when Jews were first allowed to vote in your own country(assuming it's Christian)? Jews were tomented by the Romans, The Russian Tsar, the Pope and everything that stands for European Christianity. The Jews were not kicked out of Palestine by the Arabs; it was the Romans. And it was Europeans who exhibited racism against them.

    Jews have been in conflict with Arabs; not muslims. However, muslims share a brotherhood that cannot be denied. Did you know that my passport barrs me from even entering the state of Israel? The current conflict was created 50 years ago...imposed by the US and Britain. It's their creation...and if they want, they can fix it.

    Islam is being labelled as a source of terrorism...i don't agree. Remember the Jewish groups fighting for a homeland in 1947/8? What about the American revolution? Can a struggle for self-determination be termed as "terrorism"? If it couldn't be then, why now?

    Americans don't understand Islam...perhaps never will. They are only interested in their own neighbourhoods and not the rest of the world of the world. They're interested in imposing their rules as they see fit. Perhaps they should open their eyes and see the WORLD.


     
    Extra Extra Read all about it (none / 0) (#116)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jan 20th, 2002 at 09:35:11 PM PST
    Hay man i think none of you know Islam and just comments on it.Lets give some examples of christians.
    1.You love people against the nature but Islam doesn't propose that.
    2.You kill innocent people and examples are in millions you cannot even count your self.
    3.Fucking in other's business is your hobby.
    4.First you build arms factories in Iraq and now when you have done with Iraq and Iran and also Kuwait now you put restrictions on them and bomb the medicine factory in Sudan how rash is chritianty and Judaism.
    5.You go back on your words.Examples
    5.1 1982 Afghan war,A billionaire rose from middle east named Usama-Bin-Laden, you trained him i mean CIA and FBI.he was then the hero and also talibans were the Mujahidians and Nothern Allainces were the culprits.Islam never said to go back on words
    and many many more..................
    i will always consolidate people died on 11th Sep.which by no means an Islamic act and you should differentiate between Islam and terrorism.

    My friends do read carefully and try to know islam by getting into it not just staying away from it(means by reading)

    A Muslim writer




     
    Hello? (none / 0) (#129)
    by Fako on Thu Jul 25th, 2002 at 10:36:40 PM PST
    Hello there? Me to brains, me to brains, hear me? Didnt you ever hear of something called HUMAN RIGHTS?


     

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