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 Electronica: The threat to our youth

 Author:  Topic:  Posted:
Sep 14, 2001
 Comments:

A few months ago I was relaxing in front of the TV, enjoying another night of quality American programming, when I started to hear dull thuds coming from my son's bedroom upstairs. I rushed upstairs, fearing the worse, but when I came to his room there was no masked intruder, only some awful monotonous racket coming from his stereo system! Now, as the parent of a teenage son I've gone through any number of my son's phases, and at first I thought this was just another thing I'd have to put up with, like Marilyn Manson T-shirts or Brittany Spears posters, and it'd be over in six months time, ready for the next "cool" thing.

But that was only the start of it. Soon after, my son started attending "raves" in the area, all-night parties where they play "electronica", a form of music characterised by repetitive beats and electronic noises. When he came back he was both tired and irritable, and I noticed his standards of behaviour declining. Even during the week he would be snappy and rude, and it got to the point where we'd argue constantly.

By this time I was seriously worried. So, as a concerned parent I made a concerted effort to discover why my son had changed so drastically. Seeing as the only thing that had changed was his new-found love of electronic music and raves, I decided to do some investigating. Soon, I was shocked and appalled, for what had seemed at first a relatively harmless interest was exposed as a dangerous and depraved lifestyle known for sucking in innocents and destroying their lives! Below, I shall reveal what I have learned in the hope of informing other parents of the perils out there.

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The Myth of "Facts"
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  • Fact: Electronica and drugs are inherently linked

    Despite numerous claims from "ravers" that what they do is about music, or even spirituality and PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity and Respect), it remains an undisputed fact that raves and drug use go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other.

    The most common of the "rave drugs" is MDMA, also known as "ecstacy" or X. Users taking are said to be "rolling" and report euphoria and increased energy. Of course this begs the question of why they need an artificial and dangerous substance to feel good - is it that there is something lacking in their lives? Although there is no hard evidence yet, preliminary studies indicate that an astoundingly high percentage of regular "ravers" come from broken homes, and that a statistically significant proportion of them suffered from child abuse. Clearly, such horrific experiences have made them more vulnerable to the "alternative lifestyle" of the rave "culture".

    Aside from this, it is a scientifically proven fact that MDMA causes brain damage in humans, giving rise to long-term dangers of which depression may be the least. However there are other, less well known drugs that are at least as dangerous, such as GHB, also known as the "date rape drug" (see below). This can cause instant death in users, who, thanks to the reams of pro-drug propagdana available on the Internet, are often unaware of the potential dangers.

  • Fact: Dealers encourage people to take drugs in order to get them hooked

    In some senses peddling drugs is like any other capitalist venture - you require customers, and it makes sense to acquire new customers through advertising your product. The manufacturers brand their products with trendy logos, add colourings to them and even make them in different shapes, all designed to foster youth appeal and make them resemble sweets. This is clearly a cynical ploy to make these killer pills seem harmless.

    Dealers are known to hand out free samples in order to get kids hooked, and if your child is out at a rave then despite their best intentions, they may feel pressured into accepting in order to fit in with others. Soon after they will start buying their own drugs, and over time in larger and larger quantities as they begin to crave an elusive "high". And throughout this, the dealer is smiling, happy to know that in causing your child's moral and physical decay is an endless source of tainted money.

  • Fact: Electronica is designed to be addictive

    A little known fact is that dance music is played at a tempo which corresponds to human brain waves, causing addictive effects similar to cocaine in listeners. No wonder people become so addicted to the "lifestyle" that goes with dance music; after several exposures to the basslines they cannot help themselves. This is especially pernicious when combined with the savagely addictive effects of the drugs teenagers are exposed to at clubs (see above).

  • Fact: Immorality and sexual predation are common in the rave scene

    Apart from all the medical dangers that the rave scene contains, perhaps more scary is what the scene tries hard to hide - it's dark underside of sexual deviancy and predation. The most obvious sign of this is the "fashion" for provocative clothing that quite clearly inflames men's lusts. While it is sad that this is the case, and we can wish that men were more noble creatures, the lack of such abuse at more wholesome gatherings such as prayer meetings clearly reveals that this is a causitive influence.

    Users who are in a confused state from taking drugs, almost always young girls, are easy prey for the sexual predators that stalk the rave scene. These are men that in normal life cannot find themselves a girlfriend, and are instead forced to stalk raves, looking for girls whose morals have been overcome by chemical influence. When they find them, they will invariably pretend to be nice, stringing the girl along until they get what they want.

    What you have to remember is that the sort of person that ends up going to these events and taking drugs is not the sort of person that can sustain a normal, healthy relationship. Coming from broken homes and abusive childhoods as they so often do, they have a warped view of interpersonal relationships, and the only thing they know is exploitation. This provides them with the feeling of adequacy they need, and since ravers are all easily suggestible thanks to the drugs they consume, such people are invariably drawn to sexual predation.

    If your daughter is going these raves, she will suffer these things!

    You may think that your son or daughter is a good child who goes out with their friends and sticks with them, shunning such people. This is good, but there are other dangers. The effects of ecstacy are such that it lowers people's inhibitions, and makes them want to touch each other. This often leads to sexual contact, especially between people who are already friends. What may start as a simple group hug may become something more sexual, with heavy petting and more occuring on the dance floor, in front of other people! Not only is such lewd behaviour common, but the incidence of homosexuality (especially lesbianism) is over 145% greater in the rave scene than anywhere else! Be on the look out for such telltale signs amongst your child and their friends - this includes strange phrases used to describe such actions, excessive physical contact - hugging, kissing and stroking, and behavioural changes in their relationships with each other, you and even strangers.


    As with everything in life, the key to good parenting is to be smart and be forewarned, education is vital to understand your child. I can only hope that this piece is of use to parents out there in similar situations to mine who do not know exactly what the "rave" scene is all about, and are letting their children into a dark world of drugs, addiction and immorality.

    Remember, every year hundreds of teenagers die at raves across the US. Don't let your child be one of them.


  • Personally (none / 0) (#9)
    by seventypercent on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 12:57:26 PM PST
    I don't see what's wrong with Perry Como.

    Why do kids feel the need to listen to this dreck?

    Think about it; the act of songwriting is not something that can go on forever. There are a finite number of musical pitches (actually, a rather small number of them) and there are only so many ways that these pitches can be combined. I think that we need to consider the possibility that the reason that all music nowadays is crap is because all of the good songs have already been written.

    At any rate, I will say that I have never seen a teenager gobble pills by the handful and engage in lewd acts in a parking lot while listening to Bing Crosby, by God. Electronica is the biggest part of the problem (as you've pointed out) but most of the rest of it (i.e., hip-hop) is not much better. Modern music is completely devoid of worth and should probably be made illegal.

    --
    Red-blooded patriots do not use Linux.

    Dreck (none / 0) (#20)
    by plastik55 on Sat Sep 15th, 2001 at 12:12:49 AM PST
    Amon Tobin is doing things with computers that the world's greatest jazz musicians could only have wet dreams about.

    That said, I too find most commercial electronica to be boring and repetitive. However, there are jewels in the rough to be found for any type of music.

    Thid is a perfect application of Sturgeon'a Law. Theodore Sturgeon was a science fiction writer, hwo when an interviewer asked him about the accusation that 90% of science fiction is crap. responded quickly, "90% of everything is crap."

    Electronica simply has not been around long enough to sort out what is truly great from what was merely popular for a short while (e.g. Paul Oakenfold.)

    Perry Como and Bing Crosby were greats, but your rose-colored perception of past music is simply because all the dreck from that era has been rightly forgotten. (If I can guess ages correctly, you were eitther not alive or barely conscious when these greats wre around. So you'll have to wait a few more decades before you can point to the presence or absence of great electronica.)

    I often find myself surfing around radio stations while driving. 90% of what I find is absolute dreck, regardless of genre. A remaining 9.9% of what's being played is dreck which I find amusing, so that's what I listen to mostly. 0.1% of the time, I actually stumble on something good. Expect a similar probability of returns when listening to new music. It takes some persistence.

    ---
    You fucking terror midget. Die a firey fucking death. -- Matthew 30:06

    get this! (none / 0) (#50)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Sep 20th, 2001 at 02:12:59 AM PST
    what do you think about classical music? imho, i think its a brainwashing genre that creates a euphoric trance state to the listener in which they might find themselves drowning themselves in drug such as cocaine, speed, heroin, and ecstasy.

    Well all know country music was started by the ku klux klan.

    Church/Gospel - you still find yourselves bashing on sub genres of todays devoted christian youth, still implementing that their "christian rock, or christian rap" is no different than modern rock or rap. I have seen churches debating within their own religion whats right and wrong in their musical tastes.

    50/60s dance/rock - Man, listening to that makes you wish they didnt ban drinking and driving. How many parents/grandparents today regret killing someone in their youth days for wreckless driving?

    my biased opinions are just as biased as yours.

    have a nice day, and i hope you all would just move on and not take this argument to your grave.





    My take (none / 0) (#66)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Sep 29th, 2001 at 12:16:26 AM PST
    Biased comments from the unaware, your weak comments are petty and come from biased skewed data. LOOK at the data seriously; people can bend it any way that they want to. The inventor of this piece has a good example of manipulation, and self-insecurities, why post on the web about this fact. It comes across to you wanting support on you campaign against youth. It's ridiculous if your going to be against your kids your kids will be against you.

    Spin your thoughts, as you will, to live in the blissful ignorant life of right wing utopia.

    Stop blaming the problem and look at your self as a parent. You have obivoulsly had some effect on their life, maybe raves will be a good thing on your childs development. Unless you have raised them to make wrong decisions, then fault to you.





     
    Educate not frustrate! (none / 0) (#21)
    by Sparky on Sat Sep 15th, 2001 at 10:19:04 AM PST
    It's obvious you don't get out much. I listen to music that spans 5 decades. And all of then have good artists and bad artists. My questions would be: What would be gained if everybody shared the same opinion on topics such as music, lifestyle, or hobbies? Boring. And have you listened to any lyrics from any songs that were written in the last 30 or 40 years? All people have different taste in music style, or there would be only one, and all people have a different opinion on what is good content. Wouldn't the world be a lovely place if it were the same as after WWII? But it is not. The goal should be to understand the different cultures, attitudes, and lifestyles and to educate our youth about all of them so that they can make an educated jugdement before they end up harming themselves or others. But in order for this to happen, parents and educators need to have the knowledge to pass along and not make harsh judgements such as "all music nowadays is crap is because all of the good songs have already been written."




     
    "Surrender" (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by johnny ambiguous on Sat Sep 15th, 2001 at 04:17:18 PM PST
    You say they "engage in lewd acts in the parking lot," that's because with that electronica "music" anyone with an ounce of natural passion in his or her veins has to run outside, flee, to get away from that cold, sexless mechanical, sterile noise. Whereas, like you never ever went to a hi-skool dance and saw all the incredible, unbelievable groping that goes on in the dark during the "slow dances" when they'd play songs like "Surrender," when the air in the room filled with perfume and sweat so you'd get dizzy smelling it. Guys like Perry Como and Bing Crosby were responsible for the so-called Baby Boom for Christ's sake.

    Oh. Wait. So. I get it now. So that's what you want more of from our young, soft, beautiful, innocent, virginal daughters. You shameless, disgusting sex maniac. You filthy drooling lecher. Reaching your liver-spotted, groping, clawlike hands forth to proffer irresistible musical aphrodisiacs to fragrant, tender young teenage girls less than half your age. If I see you anywhere close to my lovely blonde teenage daughter, I'll have to shoot you.

    Furiously, dAD


    Getting into my Chevrolet Magic Fire, I drove slowly back to the office. - L. Rosen

    Dearest Mr. Ambiguous (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by seventypercent on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 05:29:45 PM PST
    You say they "engage in lewd acts in the parking lot," that's because with that electronica "music" anyone with an ounce of natural passion in his or her veins has to run outside, flee, to get away from that cold, sexless mechanical, sterile noise.

    Precisely; this is exactly why it must be banned. Electronica is cold and empty. Songs like "Some Enchanted Evening", on the other hand, are wholesome and fulfilling. My response to music of that nature is to locate a companion of the opposite sex, dance in a proper and gentlemanly manner, and consume a delicious and non-mind altering beverage (such as Kool Aid), followed by some gallant conversation. The response to electronica is exactly the opposite, as the article demonstrates.

    Whereas, like you never ever went to a hi-skool dance and saw all the incredible, unbelievable groping that goes on in the dark during the "slow dances" when they'd play songs like "Surrender," when the air in the room filled with perfume and sweat so you'd get dizzy smelling it.

    Pardon me, but in my high school dances, we had a firmly-enforced "sixteen inches" rule that governed the minimum amount of clearance between partners on the dance floor. Most kids, in an attempt to keep their image clean, ended up leaving closer to twenty-four. I don't know where you grew up, but it certainly sounds hellish.

    Guys like Perry Como and Bing Crosby were responsible for the so-called Baby Boom for Christ's sake.

    Leftivist cockamamie; Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo were responsible for the Baby Boom. If it hadn't been for these people, our servicemen would never have left the country, would never have been gone for extended periods of time, and would never have come home to such relief and joy. In short, there would have been nothing to Boom about.

    Regarding your outrageous accusation that I am some sort of predator in hunt of young, supple, creamy, nubile, and slender flesh, I am left squeaking in rage. Furthermore, the notion that I would pursue your daughter -- without having seen so much as a picture -- is ludicrous and shall be dismissed without comment.

    --
    Red-blooded patriots do not use Linux.

     
    it's your favorite phoenix dnb dj again! (none / 0) (#63)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 26th, 2001 at 04:56:51 PM PST
    hi, me again. you know the guy that had an 8 times better chance of getting ass at church than at the rave? yeah well as for techno being sterile and not good fuck music, let me just say that I lost my virginity to Aphrodite's "The Bomber Style" and the last time I got laid (3 weekends ago) was to )EIB('s "Digital Nation" CD...so ha ha ha


     
    Re: Personally (1.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 02:59:31 AM PST
    This sounds a bit like the people that claimed that "rock & roll is the devil's music" back in the 50s!

    The real evil is not any music genre or personal taste in music or art but rather the extremist fundamentalist intolerance of anyone who chooses to express themselves in a different way that still seems so widespread on this planet.

    Not everyone has the same tastes and I have to say that it is wonderful that there are so many different forms of music being expressed.

    I, like everyone have my likes and dislikes in regards to music, but I'm not going to put people down because they prefer to listen to music that I
    don't like.

    Music (like any artform) is about expression... and that goes for ANY genre.

    btw its not only the pitches in music that express whatever it is that a piece of music is created to express, there's also a huge amount of expression that can be found in the rhythms and
    also the way it progresses.

    As for "lewd acts in parking lots", is this anything new?
    What did you do (or think about) when you were that age?

    My advice: Travel overseas... meet people from different cultures, experience a wide variety of music by actually going to the parties, festivals, clubs, venues where it is played (then you might learn to at least understand why music of any genre exists and learn to tolerate or even appreciate diversity rather than blindly fearing it because of some sensationalist media hype.




     
    lol (none / 0) (#46)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 19th, 2001 at 04:39:15 PM PST
    I think that we need to consider the possibility that the reason that all music nowadays is crap is because all of the good songs have already been written.

    oh, that's too good!


     
    classical music incites orgy (none / 0) (#68)
    by THC 1138 on Mon Oct 1st, 2001 at 01:15:19 PM PST
    Have you ever seen Amadeus, the mostly true story of Mozart? I seem to remember a scene where a group of older teens/twenty-somethings at a costume party were performing lewd and lascivious acts while Mozart was playing.

    I'm so tired of people that think that our generation invented sex, life was idyllic before the corruptions of modern life, etc...

    "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they allow disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children now are tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when eleders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."
    -Socrates (according to Plato)
    How does it feel? Well it feels f**king blind. - b. k.

     
    Listen to yourself... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Oct 8th, 2001 at 03:00:42 PM PST
    How easily those of age tend to forget their youth, and what their music meant to them. This is no different than rock n roll, of country music, of symphony orchestra. Music is music, and pertains to the culture and people that follow it. To say that music has it's limits and boundries, is to say that life itself has limits, and boundries. Without music, there would be no life.

    You seem to think that humans have only been here for 2001 years or something ;-)


     
    Your "facts" (4.00 / 7) (#10)
    by plastik55 on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 01:08:23 PM PST
    Fact: Electronica and drugs are inherently linked

    An indictment made by some back-water sheriff does not prove anything.

    And I've never run into GHB at a rave. The moniker "date rape drug." is more often applied to Rohypnol, which I've never seen at a rave either.

    Although there is no hard evidence yet, preliminary studies indicate that an astoundingly high percentage of regular "ravers" come from broken homes, and that a statistically significant proportion of them suffered from child abuse.

    Answer me this: Do you believe that popular news and discussion site Adequacy.org is a better source for news and insightful discussion than the world's shittiest newspaper? If so, you should be aware that even the world's shittiest newspaper will use the phrases "a study by ..." or "(such-and-such organization) has released a report..." In other words they say WHO did the studies. That's right, they use CITATIONS which you should have learned about in high school. So please provide supporting data, else I will be forced to conclude that you are making up all such "facts."

    Fact: Dealers encourage people to take drugs in order to get them hooked

    Any references supporting this fact?

    I'm willing to bet I have WAY more experience with the drug scene than you. I have NEVER encountered a dealer who gave away samples. That would be like hanging a giant neon "ARREST ME" sign on your neck. No, in order to get drugs at a rave or otherwise, you have to be discreet, and know the right language. This especially applies to drugs which are not physically eddictive (e.g. pot, LSD, MDMA.) where the dealer has no guarantee that the user will want to come back for more.

    A little known fact is that dance music is played at a tempo which corresponds to human brain waves, causing addictive effects similar to cocaine in listeners.

    Alpha waves (which would be the ones you want) go at between 7 and 14 cycles per second. Most techno goes between 120 and 145 BPM. These are hardly the same tempoes. And to compare brain wave synchronization to cocaine is ridiculous. Cocaine is a drug which enters the brain and physically alters the functioning of dopamine channels. (Note: Since I've just now quoted some scientific facts, I'll make a couple of citation. See how it works?)

    As for the incidence of immorality, rape, etc, I'd have to say that such behavior is, in point of fact, more common at legal bars, concerts, and church gatherings (Yes, even church gatherings... I once belonged to a youth organization associated with my Christian church, which would organize "conferences" where all the teenagers from churches in the region would get together for a weekend with minimal adult supervision... the amount of immorality and illicit sexual activity was awe-inspiring. So before sou send your son packing for a church retreat to straighten his head, please make sure you aren't making the situation worse.)

    However, I've been to outdoor raves where several ladies had taken to dancing with their tops off by the early morning. Funnily enough, they didn't seem to be the target of any sexual advances dispite their display, and left with the same boyfriends that had arrived with. I appreciated the spectacle from a distance, and decided that it was a good thing rather than a bad thing.

    In fact, the only problem (other than drug use by some, but not all participants) I've seen at raves is that very often the police will show up and kick everyone out, makign the attendees panic and forcing them to drive home in an inebriated state. I have seen this happen multiple times, and in each case the police had NO legal justification for their actions. In one case they claimed there had been a shooting at a local gas station, which was blatantly untrue, as we all saw when we drove past the gas station on our way out. In another case they complained about a volation of fire codes, which was blatantly untrue, as we realized when we counted heads and found the number well less than the number posted on the wall. But they shut the operation down anyway. In another case they claimed that the items for sale at a concession stand (bottled water, hot dogs, and earplugs) were, in fact, "drug paraphenalia." Now, I've never smoked an ear plug, but I doubt I would enjoy it.

    My conclusion is that the police think they have too much free time, and have taken to shutting down raves as busywork As events in the past week have shown, the police have MANY MORE important things to be vigilant about. What's more important, one hyperthermic teenager, or ten thousand dead New Yorkers?

    ---
    You fucking terror midget. Die a firey fucking death. -- Matthew 30:06

    wow (3.50 / 4) (#17)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 05:48:21 PM PST
    You have "hit the nail right on the head". I am astounded by your response and commend you on attempting to knock some sense into the author of the article.

    I just wanted to say that I hope the author of the initial article has read the reply I am commending and has thought long and hard about it with a clear and open mind.


     
    preach it (1.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 08:10:18 AM PST
    thank god for someone with some sense instead of a ill informed sensationilist blabbing her mouth about something which is only hersey.


     
    Your tripe (3.40 / 5) (#43)
    by manifold on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 09:19:45 AM PST
    An indictment made by some back-water sheriff does not prove anything.

    And nor does the ramblings of someone that openly admits they take drugs. I mean, are we really supposed to trust the words of someone that seems proud of the fact that they rot their body and brain with noxious chemicals on a weekly basis?

    I'm sorry, but when I look for reasoned discourse, I don't head down to the ghetto to find a crack house. Similarly, if I want a reasoned debate on the evils of "raves", I won't be asking someone quite clearly addled by loud noises and illegal drugs.

    What's more important, one hyperthermic teenager, or ten thousand dead New Yorkers?

    That is an awful thing to say, and your use of this horrible disaster in this argument only goes to show what a truly horrible person you are. You should be ashamed of yourself, and I can only hope your parents know not what you are.




    Never was "weekly" (3.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 08:56:38 PM PST
    Not even "monthly" either. Actually I tried Ecstacy a few times and didn't like it. It feels good in some sense, but it makes my jaws clench and my eyes jitter, which is plain disturbing. I don't think it's worth the risk.

    I will admit to the occasional tab of acid, but only when the timing is right, which is maybe every 4 months or so. But for me it's just icing on the cake. There's a big world out there, and plenty of amazing things to see without having to hallucinate them.

    As for the WTC comment, it was a cheap shot and I apologize for my poor taste. However, I still think that lawmakers and police have their priorities out of whack.

    if I want a reasoned debate on the evils of "raves", I won't be asking someone quite clearly addled by loud noises and illegal drugs.

    Am I hallucinating or does Adequacy.org claim to be the Internet's premier site for controversial discussion? There ain't no controversy if everyone is on the same side of the issue. Any kind of "debate" needs input from more than one viewpoint. If you don't want to have a reasoned debate but instead want to have a heartwarming mutual-agreement session, there are places you can go to do that.

    If you're going to have a productive debate about this, you're going to need someone who can tell you about it first-hand. I've been there and lived to tell about it, and I don't think it's that bad.

    Oh, and BTW, you might want to change your description on the who's who page.


     
    How silly (1.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 19th, 2001 at 07:38:58 PM PST
    "I'm sorry, but when I look for reasoned discourse, I don't head down to the ghetto to find a crack house. Similarly, if I want a reasoned debate on the evils of "raves", I won't be asking someone quite clearly addled by loud noises and illegal drugs"


    You aren't going to get a "reasoned" debate on the "evils" of raves. It is a one-sided argument... you believe in Evil as a concept... You don't understand something (in this case, Raving) and you deem it Evil. How can anyone debate this with you?

    You don't even know what you are talking about. There's little substance to debate here. Go do some REAL research. Jesus...


     
    Re: Your tripe (none / 0) (#58)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Sep 23rd, 2001 at 04:13:49 AM PST
    And nor does the ramblings of someone that openly admits they take drugs. I mean, are we really supposed to trust the words of someone that seems proud of the fact that they rot their body and brain with noxious chemicals on a weekly basis?

    This sounds like the comment of a man (or woman) who seems blissfully unaware of just how many people take illegal substances these days. The fact that often 'respectable members of society' and succesful businessmen take drugs in various forms on a regular basis. Yet they do not experience any adverse side effects once the night is over which makes them unable to function at work.

    Granted, the majority of the 'rave' scene (or any other form of pub/club/nitelife) is populated by 18-24 year olds. As a student myself I see a lot of people doing what they enjoy doing...

    I personally do not take drugs or smoke. I enjoy a drink, and this is probably worse for my body than most drugs deemed 'illegal'.

    I do not attend raves. Or many clubs, because i just dont particularly like them. Although i can honestly say most of what the original article mentions regarding rape and violence etc etc is no more heightened than walking down a dark city centre street on a friday nite. At least when you are at one of these events you are protected by having other people around, and anything else is just like a normal bar fight.

    My advice to everyone is to let everyone else do what they want. Leave teenage rebellion alone, for those of you with children in or entering their teens, you know you all did things deemed innapropriate for the time. Its just society figuring itself out.

    Taking drugs is not the problem, its drug abuse.


     
    closed mind (none / 0) (#69)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 2nd, 2001 at 02:34:21 PM PST
    im sorry you have already made up you mind listening to rumors spread by the exploitive media. you should actually read some studies done on drugs. and i dont mean the hype from the other side, there is plenty of plain data out there to read. i didnt read anything you said that was anything other than an emotional, preconditioned response.


     
    Free Samples (none / 0) (#53)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Sep 20th, 2001 at 11:30:12 AM PST
    Damn it. I've NEVER gotten a free sample from a dealer!

    drive me crazy 2.

    Marketing is cool, tho. Maybe after the innovative dealer makes his money he can move on to real crime and go to Wall Street.

    :)


     
    fuck yeah! church rallies rock! (none / 0) (#61)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 26th, 2001 at 04:26:12 PM PST
    <I>As for the incidence of immorality, rape, etc, I'd have to say that such behavior is...more common at...church gatherings (Yes, even church gatherings... I once belonged to a youth organization associated with my Christian church, which would organize "conferences" where all the teenagers from churches in the region would get together for a weekend with minimal adult supervision... the amount of immorality and illicit sexual activity was awe-inspiring.</I>


    I am a college student who has been actively involved with church groups every since the beginning of Junior High. I have also been in the rave scene for several years, and I spin Drum'N'Bass (essentially fast breakbeats at 170-180bpm) at raves here in the Phoenix area. I do not and have not ever taken drugs.

    One of the running jokes among us who DJ is the presence of "DJ Hoes" - girls who want to sleep with you simply because you can press "start" on a Technics turntable and then move the pitch adjusts until two records are synchronized...and there are in fact usually girls at parties who want to carry your records and act like little 7th graders with crushes on you.

    However, as a single guy I offer this comparison:

    I go home and jack off after virtually 3/4s of all the events here I spin at - that's right, I'm a DJ at an event that supposedly breeds girls to be easy to take and yet I only get ass 25% of the time.

    But oh, those church rallies. When I was in high school we did church youth conferences and rallies with my senior high youth group and boy were those fun! Shit, I once laid four girls in one weekend in Tempe at a church event. One Friday, One Sunday, One right before the Saturady evening message and worship, and another one a few hours after it got over!

    This isn't a fake post or sarcasm, I'm dead on serious...my average for church rallies was laying two girls in one weekend, but for raves it's .25 and that's WITH me being a DJ...I can't imagine what it would be like if I didn't spin.


    But yeah, to all you parents out there that would rather have your kids at a church event than a party, remember - I'm 8 times more likely to have fucked your daughter at church than at the rave :D


    PLUR,

    ---Jimbo


    he's rite! (none / 0) (#70)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 2nd, 2001 at 02:43:58 PM PST
    im not a dj or anything, but ive only once picked up a chick at a rave, and that was one of 2 girls ive slept with that i didnt meet thru church. as for drugs, ive been to more k-parties with my church crew than every other drug experiance put together!


     
    Electronica, or raves? (4.20 / 5) (#11)
    by legolas on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 01:10:22 PM PST
    Obviously, by the tone of this message, I'm someone who enjoys Techo/Trance/Electronica/whatever type of music. It's what I listen to on my discman, and in my car, and on the internet.

    Anyways, your message begain as "Electronica: The threat to our youth", and ended as "I can only hope that this piece is of use to parents out there in similar situations to mine who do not know exactly what the "rave" scene is all about, and are letting their children into a dark world of drugs, addiction and immorality.".

    Repeating myself, I am a fan of techno music. It started with me buying a Prodigy CD after watching "Hackers", and progressed from there. However, it wasn't until years later that I discovered there even was a rave culture. I'm a clean-cut university 3rd year engineering student. I don't smoke, and I drink very occasionally. Many of the people I know that like techno music a lot are the same way.

    Now, I'm not saying that a problem doesn't exist. There are plenty of enlightened pseudointellectual candy ravers around where I live. However, the goth/hippie(fucking dirty hippie scum)/neonazi death metal/etc. cultures also exist, and are also popular with bored upper middle class kids, and are equally as unwholesome. Your warnings about raves and kids are great. It was just that the first part of your story seems to be painting an entire gendre of music with the same brush. The vast majority of people who listen to techno (and most, including my self, also listen to a wide variety of other music) are perfectly fine.

    --legolas


    Music not the threat, the drugs are. (1.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 04:27:31 PM PST
    First, let me say that "way back when" I attended a few of these when the whole Rave thing began.. (these are not something new). They are awful. I saw things I could not believe, and I will not describe here. I think I went to a whole two, and never did again.

    Now, a decade later, I practically rely and depend on being able to listen to this type of music, also referred to as "techno". In my line of work, it sometimes gets me through a long and hard project where creativity is very important. It eases me, passes the time well, and inspires me to do great things.

    I do not take drugs, and never have.




    Your loss (1.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Sep 15th, 2001 at 12:45:07 PM PST
    Your loss. You should have, then you would have known what you were talking about,
    .


     
    Without wanting to sound elitist (1.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 04:51:52 PM PST
    The Prodigy are really best described as 'Pop' rather than techno.

    Whilst techno is a broad church, the best exponents of this type of music is Rotterdam based Ferry Corsten, the Scottich/Dutch hybrid Happy Hardcore sounds of Hixxy and Sharkey and anything from Mokum.




    I'd disagree (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 11:21:40 AM PST
    While perhaps the new stuff should be considered pop, I think of the Prodigy Experience and Music for the Jilted Generation to be techno.


     
    "pop" (none / 0) (#39)
    by Nobody on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 03:43:03 AM PST
    You seem to imply that because The Prodigy have become more popular, they can no longer be described as techno.

    "Pop" isn't a genre as such. In theory all it means is that the music is popular (so surely Mozart is pop...?) but in practise people use it to describe contemporary crap by "big names" that cannot be classified under any other name.

    Put it this way, I don't think it's fair to throw The Prodigy and Britney Spears together under the same umbrella. Put it another way: if another unknown artist produces music of a similar style to The Prodigy, does that mean they are "pop" too?!

    I would describe The Prodigy as a kind of techno / big beat / rock hybrid. I would be more inclined to use the word "pop" to describe Ferry Corsten (who does fairly mainstream trancey stuff) rather than The Prodigy, who are successful because they are GOOD and ORIGINAL, rather than staying on board an already successful bandwagon. IMHO :-)


     
    As a parent of two young children, I'm worried (3.40 / 5) (#12)
    by Adam Rightmann on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 01:26:13 PM PST
    perhaps this rave thing will burn out and become passe, like heavy metal and rap music apparently have. But if it doesn't what should a parent do to make sure their children don't become involved in these dangerous things?

    A thorough religious upbringing is a start, but this isn'ta gurantee, as this plastik55 sort admits. Would it be possible to make some sort of Lo-Jack for kids, so we can know where they are at all times? They can remove them on their wedding night, of course, it might even be a touching ceremony.

    Well, what do you all think?


    A. Rightmann

    "It's the same old story, (5.00 / 5) (#14)
    by chloedancer on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 03:59:04 PM PST
    the same old song and dance, my friend..."

    RE: perhaps this rave thing will burn out and become pass�... Once upon a time, it all started with Jazz, born in the cribs of N'Awlins notorious Storyville red light district -- hooking it directly to the "world's oldest profession" since it drew its first creative breath. It quickly became the delight of the Lost Generation during the '20s, on through the Beatniks of the '50s. (The origin of the word "jazz" is most often traced back to a vulgar term used for sexual acts; as an art form, Jazz is often cited as the first uniquely American artistic product.) Then came "rock & roll" (yet another euphemistic sexual tie-in), along with the fear that the morals of America's youth were going to hell in the proverbial handbasket; the teen rebellion market was open for business!

    In the '60s, the birth of the commonplace recreational drug culture infused the union of sex and rock 'n roll -- a tempestuous m�nage � trois that has managed to flourish, enduring even the most venomous condemnation. The '70s introduced the notion of "shock rock," courtesy of Alice Cooper, The Velvet Underground, etc., as well as punk rock (culimating, perhaps, with "The Great Rock & Roll Swindle" -- the last time talent was in the driver's seat, IMHO).

    The '80s -- for the life of me, I just can't seem to remember anything too terribly controversial re: the connection between popular music, popular culture and popular drugs -- must have been all the coke we did, I guess, preventing anything surfacing through the fog of memory. The '90s brought us gangsta rap, Industrial shock rock (Thanks, Trent & Marilyn! Loved that manufactured psychosis and angst!), grunge, etc., plus a rebirth of heroin infatuation, Ecstasy and a brave, new world of designer drugs (let's try to forget the Lambada, however, shall we?).

    "Grunge" was particularly stunning - ripped from the dive bars and dank clubs, pristinely packaged and marketed back to our troubled youth by Madison Avenue, flannel flaunted on catwalks and in Vogue magazine -- the swindle continued!

    Fact: the pattern was well-entrenched long before electronica & raves ever tickled our collective subconscious. While I do believe that this, too, shall become pass�, I am certain that it'll only happen once another youth trend has been identified and is already positioned, unit-shifting friendly and waiting to be consumed.

    My question is this: Does adolescent culture actually create these phenomena/trends/styles, or have we reached a point in our cultural development where the controversy has already been prepackaged for convenient purchase and consumption by a preceding generation(s)? Who owns the clubs, the recording industry and the media buzz machine, anyway? We set the hook before puberty with the boy- and girl-bands, then we reel `em in during the hormonal flux, before they can truly think for themselves -- this is the golden era of franchising the process of separating the child from his/her parents, folks! Inspiring, really... Doesn't it make you wonder how you, too, can tap into the streaming revenue? And you'd get the chance to design your child's means of rebellion -- you'll have my support if it's got a good beat we can all dance to it!


     
    raves (3.66 / 3) (#19)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 11:48:43 PM PST
    Perhaps raves will go the way of rock and roll and organized religion and die out. That would be a good thing. After years of listening to techno music I have finally come to terms with my addiction and am proud to say that I am recovering. It has been 3 months since I last listened to techno. I still have a long way to go but I believe I am a better person for giving it up.


    "intellectually challenged" (1.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 04:57:32 PM PST
    Since when is techno a bad thing and you're a 'better person' from stopping listening to it. It's like saying, "look, I've stopped watching news, a terrible addiction, I am a better non-news-brainwashed person now." Sounds stupid? You bet.


     
    YOU are the answer (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by bec on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 08:57:12 AM PST
    Talk to your kids. Talk to them about drugs. Talk to them about sex. Talk to them about raves. Talk to them about why you think drugs are bad. And the key is...you also have to listen to their responses with an open mind.

    First you have to have the relationship in order to do this. Do your kids feel that they can come to you with anything without fear of punishment? Do they feel that you are approachable? Do they feel like they can open up to you? Or do they feel like you'll only try to force your ideals, thoughts and feelings on them? Do they think that, if in an open discussion, they can bring their own thoughts and feelings to the table and have them respected as real instead of the "you'll understand how the real world is when you're older" mentality that permeates most households?

    If you don't have that kind of openness with your child, then yes you will need to put a tracking collar on them until they are 18.

    So figure out what it is that keeps your children from communicating with you and vice versa...and eliminate those barriers while they are young. Children want to do the right thing. Children want to realize their dreams when they grow up. Children never choose to become drug addicts. And no, you can't blame it on the Predatory Drug Dealers. It starts at home. It starts when they are young. It starts with you.

    If you want an "easy out" or a "quick fix" then forget it. There isn't one. There is only trying your hardest to bring up your child to think for themselves. Because you can't be there all the time. And society isn't going to nurture them for you.

    I am an adult now. I am a successful professional. Yes, I am childless. It would appear that I've no grounds on which to base my opinions on childrearing. But I do remember what it was like to be a teenage runaway. To be involved in the drug culture. And to come out of it unscathed on the other side. And I can reflect back on the time where my father caught me smoking cigarettes at age 16 as the pivotal point in what surely would have been a downward spiral.

    My father wasn't a "good parent". But he did try. And when he caught me smoking he sat me down to talk about it. I thought for sure I was going to get punished or get a lecture. Instead, he asked me questions. He wanted to know how I felt about the world. Why I liked punk music so much. What was it about punk lifestyle that appealed to me? Were drugs in my scope yet?

    Then he offered advice. This advice I carried with me to every party. To every rave. To every drug-riddled club. He said "Never compromise yourself. Always be true to yourself. Don't ever feel like you have to stoop to someone's level in order to fit in. You're a fantastic and smart person. Don't do anything that would damage who you are." And so, when I was at a party where people were doing lines of cocaine and offering...I turned it down. When someone slipped me a "gift" of opium, I gave it back. When my friends were shooting up, I turned around and walked out of the party.

    You can't blame raves for what your children do when out of your line of sight. There is no music demon trying to infiltrate their sensitive brain patterns while they're dancing. The boogeyman doesn't live in their closet, either. There is only fair and good parenting. That is the best you can do. And even when you're not great at it (like my dad) you still can do just enough to get them through that rough spot.

    By the way, Dad was able to help me make the right decisions on drugs and my future...but I'm headstrong and stupid sometimes...and have continued to smoke cigarettes to this day. Win some, lose some.

    Cheers
    bec


     
    cool! (none / 0) (#59)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 24th, 2001 at 02:12:06 PM PST
    maybe you could also surgically install a chastity belt, so that children would be unable to have sex until an appropriate age. if they tried, they'd be in extreme pain.

    it might also help to include some kind of tranquilizer with each meal, so that they calm down and are more willing to listen to what you tell them.. rather than fighting back and trying to have their own ideas as they sometimes do.

    actually.. kids are just altogether too irresponsible and foolish to make any kind of intelligent decision. maybe you could just leash them to you and walk them everywhere.


     
    What's wrong with parents? (none / 0) (#82)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Nov 12th, 2001 at 02:54:08 PM PST
    What is wrong with parents? Do parents simply forget their childhood? Think back people. Would this have worked on you when you were a teenager? Would it just have pissed you off? Seriously, let's think about this people. Your children are people too, don't treat them like animals!


     
    To manifold: (none / 0) (#13)
    by MicroBerto on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 01:38:52 PM PST
    What is/was your solution to your problem with your child? Has it been resolved yet? I am now curious to know what you did.

    - Mike Roberto

     
    A Tale of Two Extremes (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Sep 14th, 2001 at 08:15:44 PM PST
    As I was driving down a street, I noticed that the traffic was backed up for nearly a mile. Apparently, the driver of the vehicle at the behest of the line was puttering along at a meager 10Mph, which was less than half of the speed limit.

    Several miles and forty minutes later, the road opened up to a two lane stretch. Everyone made a mad rush to get past the offending motorist. Those now at the front of the line were enraged, late to their places of appointment and sped along at rates greatly in excess of the limit.

    Still farther up the road sat a police officer, tagging vehicles. He saw the aggravated racers and ended up pulling a few of them over. The drivers were made further irate and blamed the cop and the light-footed driver far behind.

    .....

    A young adult, struggling to escape the daily mundanity of modern american life finds the 'rave' community and is enamored. He (using 'he' as the objective article describing both genders) immerses himself in the culture and lifestyle. Meanwhile, his parents whom are far more conservative at this point in their lives, are horrified at the unfamiliar scenario.

    The parents take the youth to counseling and try to learn as much as they can about this subculture. Most of what they find is their worst nightmares come true. Young people dying, engaging is sexual activity and seemingly practicing complete disregard for the rest of the world.

    As this all progresses, the youth becomes more and more enraged. He becomes alienated from his parents and further engrosses in the drugs, music and people. The parents become more and more concerned, frustrated and desperate in their actions to remove that aspect of his life.

    .....

    The two stories above are not terribly different. Every person goes through their youth with a degree of danger in the midst. Every parent wishes to protect their child to the point of sacrificing their own lives (one would hope).

    However, there is no balance here; no happy medium. The parents refuse to understand their child's perspective and the child usually becomes so enraged that he is no longer rational.

    As advice to the original poster, attend one of these 'raves'. No matter how much you might dislike (yes, even hate) the music, you are only relying on second and third-hand conjecture. The worst of the worst scenarios play out and are snatched up by the media and police.

    The police are there to serve and protect. They typically observe the worst case scenarios, or are simply doing what they are told. Imagine being told that you will be demoted or suspended if you don't raid a facility which may or may not be engaged in illegal activities. The police are caught in the middle of two very precariously balanced mentalities. They would logically tend to side with those whom are paying their salaries.

    As for the youth, well... some have much more addictive personalities than others. In this sense, I use the term 'addictive' to describe how potent an appeal someone or something will have on the individual in question. Coin collectors have very addictive personalities in regard to collecting coins. Those 'ravers' have very addictive personalities when it comes to electronic music and the 'rave' culture.

    The best any parent can do is to instill a sense of logic and street smarts unto their children. This way, the children themselves can make their own judgements earlier in life, as well as allowing communication to remain open between parent and child. This is of utmost importance. Communication is vital for an understanding.

    In addition, living with others for long periods of time puts extreme strain on any relationship. The quirks that one individual may have can grow to irritate another, even if those two are as close as two humans can possibly be. If the living situation is uncomfortable, the relationship will suffer in due measure.

    The communication between parent and child does not need to take much time out of the day. A passing "Hey, how's it going?" can suffice. Remaining casually concerned can provide a comfortable environment. Instead of crying foul regarding drugs, which can be obtained without a parent's knowledge, instill a sense of responsibility. This, more than anything, can determine whether a youth will go to an extreme simply out of spite. The temptation of the forbidden is great; don't make it worse.

    In my own experience, I have found many in the 'rave' community to be of one of (predominantly) three major camps. There are those who are somewhat elitist and saddened by the dilution of their culture, which once held PLUR as a far more serious ideal.

    Then, there are those whom are in it for the drugs, sex or other extreme (and in most cases undesirable) aspects of the community. They also tend to be the ones to take advantage of others, whether that be financially, sexually or otherwise. These people would likely be doing the same in any other community. They are certainly the minority.

    The last group are those who are the middle ground. They enjoy the music for what it is, take in the atmosphere (which is usually a happy feeling) and consider the culture as part of their lives, but realize that life is much more.

    PLUR should be PLURR (Peace Love Unity Respect and Responsibility)

    If anyone feels the need to add more or comment on my diatribe, please do so. Just remember that this is my own view and as such does not need to be ripped apart. Opposing views keep life interesting, so long as they do not incur loss of life or relations with others.

    Lastly, take a look at religion in history - forcing it upon another is a sure way to cause backlash among some, to varying degrees of ferocity. Rather, retain your sense of respect and understanding. This flexibility and respectful distance can save the world a lot of grief, as this past tuesday has proven.

    On that note, I pray (in my own way) for all those whom have been lost, and for the parties at odds regarding the 'rave' subculture to come to an understanding.




     
    what planet do you live on? (2.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Sep 15th, 2001 at 12:43:19 PM PST
    I'm probably the same age as your spawn. I listen to electronica. Hey i didn't know rave was still � big thing. Yesterday baby. Seriously, great that you give a fuck. Anyway, electronica is here to stay. Fuck you and your oh my daughter needs help but i dont know what to do. I see you man, and youre a clown. Raving on about raves..



    tone down the language (3.66 / 3) (#27)
    by error27 on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 03:50:57 AM PST
    Adequacy.org is famous for talking about interesting and controversial topics. It is therefore, not surprising that occasionally readers like yourself disagree with something that has been said, but you don't need to use vulgar language.

    Cursing a lot may seem funny when you are a child and all your friends are doing it. But I think that you will find as you grow up, that people are more likely to listen to you if you keep your tone calm and reasonable and don't swear every other sentence.


    Tone down the righteousness (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 17th, 2001 at 12:05:17 PM PST
    Adequacy.org is known to a few for talking about morbidly fascinating and insane topics. It is therefore, not surprising that occasionally readers such as yourself disagree with something that has been said, but you don't need to get all prissy.

    Self-righteousness may seem proper when you have fooled yourself into believing you are an adult and all your friends are doing it. But I think you will find as you really mature that people are more likely to listen to you if you keep your tone less condescending and 'holier than thou' and don't make an ass of yourself every sentence.




    I couldn't agree more (none / 0) (#74)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 3rd, 2001 at 09:18:02 AM PST
    Many 'adults' are immature and many 'children' are solid and good people who think about others. It depends on the person, not on the age.


    exactly (none / 0) (#87)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 2nd, 2002 at 07:08:18 PM PST
    As someone who is constantly put down by adults for having a 'teenage brain' whenever I make a valid point against them, I would like to thank you for your point. It all depends on the person, rather then their age.


     
    Same old Same old (none / 0) (#24)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Sep 15th, 2001 at 02:19:00 PM PST
    If people want to hurt themselves to cover an aching pain, they will. No law and no speech will prevent this from happening. Alcohol, cigarettes, ecstasy, cocaine, whatever...

    I wonder nobody complains about the SPL's (Sound Pressure Level) commonly used in bars, clubs and concerts and even cinemas. I bet most people than visit those places regularly have permanent hearing loss without knowing or caring. This affects anyone trying to have some entertainment...


    Huh? (none / 0) (#33)
    by zikzak on Sun Sep 16th, 2001 at 07:58:56 PM PST
    people than visit those places regularly have permanent hearing loss without knowing or caring

    If they neither know nor care, then what is the problem?


     
    Television: the threat to our parents (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 17th, 2001 at 12:34:58 PM PST
    A few months ago I had just come home from a rave. I went to my room and started reading a novel, when I heard violent noises downstairs where my parents were. I rushed to the living room fearing the worse, but there were no terrorists attacking our house, only some awful cacophonic racket coming from the TV! My parents were watching some god-awful violent film on HBO again! Now, as the teenage son of my parents I thought this abnormal obsession for violence on TV is just a fad and they will soon return to more human interests.

    But no, they seem to dedicate more and more time to watching senseless violence on TV. It seems to have a strange addictive effect on them. Their addiction has gradually become so bad that they only spend with me a fraction of the time they used to. When they're not working, they're always busy watching what they call "quality American programming", like the Sopranos or reality shows, and they barely even talk to me any more.

    By this time I was seriously worried. So as a concerned son I made an effort to discover why my parents had changed so drastically. I was shocked and appalled to find out that what I first thought was just a relatively harmless interest turned out to be a depraved and addictive lifestyle, known for completely destroying family life!

    I found out that television desensitises people to real-life violence and turns perfectly normal people into raving lunatics by altering their brainwaves! Violence on television increases people's anger and makes them act like morons. They are even sucked into spending ridiculous amounts on money on big screen TVs, cable subscriptions, pay-per-view shows and other such dangerous and addictive stuff. If your parents watch TV, they will suffer those things!

    As with everything in life, the key to being a good child is to be smart and be forewarned, education is vital to understand your parents. I can only hope that this piece is of use to children out there in similar situations to mine who do not know exactly what the "television" scene is all about, and are letting their parents into a dark world of stupidity, addiction and desensitization.

    Remember, every year hundreds of parents become insensitive idiots because of television across the US. Don't let your parent be one of them.


    Collective Conscious (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 19th, 2001 at 11:51:38 PM PST
    likes your reply


     
    Topic Above (none / 0) (#51)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Sep 20th, 2001 at 11:24:11 AM PST
    Bravo!

    Brillant.

    A tour-de-force, and all that
    Simply marvelous


     
    Amazing (none / 0) (#67)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sat Sep 29th, 2001 at 02:45:32 PM PST
    The most insightful and well thought you response to an uneducated and overdramatized piece of drivel I've seen in a long time.


     
    Hell Yeah (none / 0) (#86)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Jan 2nd, 2002 at 06:42:13 PM PST
    BAM! That was a tremendously appropriate reply, it and the original article go hand in hand. ;)

    Whoever wrote this article in the first place seriously needs to follow their own advice and 'get an education.'

    Over here they are still calling these parties 'all night dance parties' and other such buzzwords with bad connotations; I used to be part of the scene, but I am not anymore, or at least not really. I don't go to each and every single one, mainly because it's far to expensive here (usually over $30) and the venue, assuming it's indoors, is filled with 'security' and there are more police then normal people present. The scene is still good in some places, but even now I hate to see such mis-information being spread by somebody such as Manifolder. If you take drugs at a party, then that's your prerogative, but you should always be concious of the consequences of prolonged use of any drug. Just because some medical drug is legal does not make it 'good' for you, yet you don't see paranoiists such as Manifold up in arms against hospitals and morphine, do you?

    - N.G


     
    tempo (4.50 / 2) (#36)
    by Nobody on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 03:08:20 AM PST
    "A little known fact is that dance music is played at a tempo which corresponds to human brain waves, causing addictive effects similar to cocaine in listeners"

    What a load of rubbish. You seem to imply that all dance music is at exactly the same tempo. To the contrary, the music you're likely to hear at a rave is likely to be anywhere from 120bpm (e.g. deep house) to 130bpm (progressive house) to 140bpm (trance) to 150bpm (hard house) to 160bpm (techno) to 170bpm (drum+bass) to 180+ bpm (hardcore).

    If what you say is true, and anything in this range is addictive, then we're not just talking about dance music, we're talking about EVERY kind of music EVER. Many of Beethoven's piano sonatas are around 140bpm.

    (Even having said that, I have generalised all these genres, of course they all vary in tempo.)


     
    basslines (4.50 / 2) (#37)
    by Nobody on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 03:29:14 AM PST
    "after several exposures to the basslines [of dance music] they cannot help themselves"

    To generalise about the basslines of "dance music" betrays your ignorance of the vast array of genres you are grouping together.

    The basslines in "dance music" vary from the syncopated funk of disco, to the driving rhythms of hard house, to the more harmonic basis of trance, to the imaginative synthesised sounds of drum+bass, to the more minimal grooves of techno. The only thing these styles have in common is that the basslines are quite repetetive, at one level or another. But this is true of many styles of music. Besides, repetition is the difference between music and noise. It is present in ALL music in one way or another.

    You cannot apply your theories of cocaine-like addiction to "dance music" alone. It would be no more foolhardy to say that Beethoven used the same addictive techniques in his basslines.


    there's nothing foolhardy about basso ostinato (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by yami on Thu Sep 20th, 2001 at 12:46:21 PM PST
    As a matter of fact, repetitive bass lines have been used in classical music since the 13th century. They were particularly popular during the Baroque period, when composers like Bach, Handel and Purcell made deliberate use of its addictive emotional properties. For example, listen to Dido's lament "When I am Laid in Earth" from Purcell's opera Dido and Aeneas. Later on, the glorious Ludwig van also made use of this technique in his 32 Variations in C minor for piano.

    The key difference between ground basses in classical music and modern electronica is that bass lines in modern dance music are played at volumes nearly impossible to achieve by the old acoustic methods. Loud music is more easily able to bypass the brain's natural defense mechanisms, thereby turning the listener into a helpless lump of emotional jelly, ready to be exploited by whoever walks by.

    ___
    Why should we plant when there are so many mongongo nuts in the world?

     
    what do YOU listen to anyway? (4.50 / 2) (#38)
    by Nobody on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 03:30:16 AM PST
    To the author: you didn't mention what music YOU listen to. :-)


     
    "inherently linked" (4.50 / 2) (#40)
    by Nobody on Tue Sep 18th, 2001 at 03:54:19 AM PST
    Anybody who (like me) goes to raves will agree that lots of people indulge in various illicit substances, including ecstasy.

    However it does not follow that the music and drugs are "inherently linked". I am not alone in that I passionately love house music and do not take drugs; also I am aware of a culture of taking E socially at home (i.e. not revolving around music): therefore your argument does not hold.

    How do you explain the sales of house/techno compilations? Many people enjoy dance music at home, at lower volume, and without drugs. Myself included. :-)

    You could say that music and drugs are "indirectly linked" but there is nothing new about that (this has been true for decades).

    The music is not written by scientists. It is not "designed" to be addictive. It is written by musicians who FEEL the music and have a passion for it.


    linked (none / 0) (#52)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Sep 20th, 2001 at 11:26:51 AM PST
    In miami, drugs and raves are one and the same.

    But then again, who cares.

    Life is short, enjoy it while it lasts.


    Bravo


     
    feelin' it (none / 0) (#85)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Nov 16th, 2001 at 02:00:12 AM PST
    i completely agree with your statement...its all about the passion for the music. not drugs. just because there is irresponsibility in our scene doesnt mean that everyone is irresponsible. should we take away everyones drivers license because some people drive drunk and kill innocent people?? no. point proven.


     
    Nice insight on electronic music (3.66 / 3) (#45)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 19th, 2001 at 04:18:32 PM PST
    "A few months ago I was relaxing in front of the TV, enjoying another night of quality American programming..."

    Enough said




     
    Techno repetive? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 19th, 2001 at 10:06:14 PM PST
    Have you ever listened to the works of aphex twin?
    I compare his drum stylings and imagination to that of mozart's masterpeices.
    It is that original, ingenious, and cutting edge.
    Artists like these hardly put a dull and repetive face on techno.


     
    Electronica:... (none / 0) (#56)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Sep 20th, 2001 at 03:12:17 PM PST
    What a load of... misunderstanding. This reeks of the 50s parents' paranoya against Elvis's rock'n'roll.

    As an adult (30yo) involved in creation of electronic music for the last 10 years, I know the culture rather well. Yes, the mind enhancing chemicals are present in it, but so what? One will find relatively low or non cunsumption of alcohol, high standards of personal safety (ie I've never seen a fist fight!) and general respect for individuality.

    As to the abovementioned 'drugs', hmmm, I think the 'facts' given by the author are rather stretched - based on media exagerated, inconclussive suspicions of only some of the researches done on the subject.

    When my kids grow up into thier teens, I'd rather have them go to a rave than to a sleazy nightclub or worse a BAR (!!!!).

    I sugest that the concerned parents accompany their kiddies to a local rave and have a good look around, talk to the doofers, seep in the atmosphere and expand their minds - not by taking drugs, but through an experience.

    cheers,

    CJ from Oz


     
    Grow Up (none / 0) (#57)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Sep 20th, 2001 at 04:11:58 PM PST
    Considering a form of music to be a "danger" is, and always will be, the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. There is a lot of passion that goes into the production of electronic music, and even more that is felt on the dance floor. I can think of more than a just a couple producers who are actually classically trained musicians that have turned their focus towards "electronica". Artists like BT have written 60 piece instrumentals for his productions. I have heard songs that are so beautiful they have even made me cry (not even on drugs).

    You can't generalize an entire genre of music as being devoid of emotion and being hollow just because YOU don't enjoy it, because their are in fact millions of people worldwide who love electronic music (the Love Parade in Berlin pulls in over 3 million people every year).

    I am a dj and producer, and I can assure you there is no "electronic music cook book" on how to make people "addicted" to music. Please accept the fact that people listen to it because "THEY LIKE IT". Is that so hard to accept?



     
    hmm. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Sep 24th, 2001 at 02:24:56 PM PST
    first you say that your own child is attending these events.

    you go on to add:

    "What you have to remember is that the sort of person that ends up going to these events and taking drugs is not the sort of person that can sustain a normal, healthy relationship. Coming from broken homes and abusive childhoods as they so often do, they have a warped view of interpersonal relationships, and the only thing they know is exploitation."

    if you honestly believe that most of the people who attend these events suffer from broken homes and abusive childhoods.. (and i don't necessarily disagree).. what does that say about your own parenting?

    don't you trust your child to make good decisions? if not, why?

    did you not raise him well enough that he is able to make safe choices?

    and if you are not physically affectionate with your child, how can you blame them for seeking it elsewhere? touch actually affects physical health. i think it's natural for children to want to hug and be hugged.. by their family and their friends. it doesn't necessarily indicate that they are sexually involved.

    - kimberley dietemann
    groovinkim@yahoo.com




    nwtekno represent! (none / 0) (#62)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Sep 26th, 2001 at 04:46:40 PM PST
    go groovinkim! whoop whoop


     
    Reply (none / 0) (#65)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Sep 28th, 2001 at 01:39:37 PM PST
    Tell em. Right on.
    Keep it Bumpin!!


     
    ummm, no?!? (none / 0) (#71)
    by Anonymous Reader on Tue Oct 2nd, 2001 at 02:52:02 PM PST
    being both a drug user and a deal, and the fact being that most of my friends both deal and use drugs, i can say that i have never given anyone a free sample. period. and neither have my friends. the best drug to sell at a rave would be extacy because everyone wants it and the and you make more off it. acid and ketamine are next in line. i personally dont want anyone to become addicted to drugs, but even if i did, i would go broke before i had a client base that was "addicted" and forced to come back over and over. oh, and in your description, you mention you either are surfing or halucinating. would that be acid or shrooms? just curious, cuz i can hook you up with both. :)


     
    More of the same (none / 0) (#73)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 3rd, 2001 at 09:09:54 AM PST
    I have never been to rave, but articles like this are terrible. They are the same kind of 'suck people in and destroy their lives' stuff. No one wants to destroy anyone else's life, why would they? The whole write up by this person is the same old Christian mind control 'I hate it because its bad. No I haven't tried it, I'm not going to try it because its bad' type catch-22 bullshit I am so tired of. What really caught my eye is this:

    A little known fact is that dance music is played at a tempo which corresponds to human brain waves, causing addictive effects similar to cocaine in listeners. No wonder people become so addicted to the "lifestyle" that goes with dance music; after several exposures to the basslines they cannot help themselves. This is especially pernicious when combined with the savagely addictive effects of the drugs teenagers are exposed to at clubs (see above).

    What the fuck is this? I could make Electronica right now with Fruity Loops or some other program. I know nothing about brainwaves. I have listened to quite a bit of electronic music, and from there it led me into orchestrated music and anything cinematic. Electronic music is kind of a weird catagory because all music is run through a computer at some point. Most sugar pop songs like Nsync etc. are almost completely synthetic anyway. I have heard this 'corresponds with brainwaves' and the 'electronic music is addictive' stuff before, where does this come from? I can't believe anyone would believe it.

    You can usually make up for ignorance with confidence


     
    this is bull !!!! (none / 0) (#75)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 3rd, 2001 at 05:07:51 PM PST
    I just came across this and it totally pushed my buttons!! have you ever been to a rave?? it's not about the drugs it's about the music!! i go sober all the time and the music..... it's amazing, it is addictive but it's not telling you to do drugs or whatever, you choose what you want to do in life no one has a say in it and you don't get pressured into it and i showed my self into the scene no one lured me in!!!
    love,
    Samantha


     
    Parenting (none / 0) (#76)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 4th, 2001 at 11:27:16 AM PST
    To manifold:

    My only comment to you is that parenting your own child will be very much more successful than this attempt at parenting everyone.

    Your children will make smarter choices with the values you instill therein.

    Take responsibility for your child, don't try scare tactics to prevent the attendance to rave parties. Articles like yours above when read by our youth only feed their desire to see what it is adults are so worried about.


     
    Please Cite Sources (none / 0) (#77)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 4th, 2001 at 09:21:49 PM PST
    Could you cite the sources of your research for this article? I'm having a very hard time believing several of your rather bold allegations. From what I understand, electronica is a widely accepted mainstream musical style. I have seen many American television commercials on network broadcasting stations which have electronica soundtracks. Is this the same musical style you're referring to? And if so, why are major American corporations using this allegedly "addictive" music style, especially if it leads to drug use?


     
    pure genius (none / 0) (#79)
    by Anonymous Reader on Wed Oct 10th, 2001 at 10:28:22 PM PST
    Wow- I can see that you've done very, very little research.
    Bravo, you must be incredibly proud of yourself for stringing together such an elaborate web of preconcieved conclusions, assumptions, rumours, and un-substantiated tests!
    It almost appears legitimate! Congrats!

    Allthough I suggest you try talking to a few more people (maybe one or 2 'ravers,' not to mention, maybe an expert or 2 instead of relying on data you've found on the internet.)

    Keep at it- you might just convince someone someday!


     
    This article. (none / 0) (#80)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Oct 11th, 2001 at 11:33:19 PM PST
    This article, is truly sad.

    I have attend raves for almost two years now.

    Do I do drugs?
    No.
    Am I asked to do drugs by friends?
    No.

    I see more drugs at my old high school then at your average rave.

    I still can't figure out for the life of me, how you figure that the music is made to effect alpha waves.

    I dj, at raves. I also produce electronic music on occasion.

    Never, ever, have I reached down for a record and said. "Oh boy, this one is going to align nicely with there alpha waves."

    And as for the music going hand in hand with drugs?

    Then If I spend hours at a time with the music, I should be doing some drugs right?

    What's this about comming from broken homes?

    I can assure you I do not come from a broken home.

    I'm tired of seeing uninformed opinions floating around on the internet.

    Raves will not have a negative effect on your children, if they are raised right.

    I feel truly sorry for your child, for they have to be raised in a home where there parent's don't trust them enough to listen to electronic music.



     
    What UTTER Bull...Ignorance obviously runs rampant (none / 0) (#81)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Nov 2nd, 2001 at 12:51:15 AM PST
    *****
    "A few months ago I was relaxing in front of the TV, enjoying another night of quality American programming"
    *****

    mmmm hmmmmmm...And we ALL 'know' that what the idiot-box says is ALWAYS oh so TROoOoOo... heheheheheh... quit living vicariously through your television already...


    *****
    "..when I started to hear dull thuds coming from my son's bedroom upstairs. I rushed upstairs, fearing the worse, but when I came to his room there was no masked intruder, only some awful monotonous racket coming from his stereo system!"
    *****

    Oh no! Not music! (Because we all know that television will save our souls and music will destroy our youth *rolls eyes*)

    I'm sure your parents thought the exact same thing when you started listening to popular music as opposed to what they grew up listening to.

    It amazes me how closed-minded, and forgetful of their own youth, that 'rational adults' can be.


    ******
    "Now, as the parent of a teenage son I've gone through any number of my son's phases, and at first I thought this was just another thing I'd have to put up with, like Marilyn Manson T-shirts or Brittany Spears posters, and it'd be over in six months time, ready for the next "cool" thing."
    ******

    Electronic music is so much more intelligently produced and written than Brittney Spears' and Marilyn Manson's "music" is, I'd be *happy* knowing that my son wasn't another teeny-bopper sheep or angst-ridden goth (since you want to generalize)



    ******
    "But that was only the start of it. Soon after, my son started attending "raves" in the area, all-night parties where they play "electronica", a form of music characterised by repetitive beats and electronic noises."
    ******

    Do you think disco is evil?

    Or funk?

    Or R & B?

    Or progressive rock?

    Or classical?

    New-agey, ambient, Enya-type stuff?

    Jazz?

    Many genres of electronica have been compared to classical music because the progression of the music is the same, and is frequently written in the same format.

    Almost all of the subgenres (of which there are hundreds, trust me) of electronic music have evolved from disco, R & B, progressive rock, etc...as well as incorporate the sounds of every type of music I listed above.

    Most likely, you have liked at least one of these forms of music in your life. That, dear, would make you a hypocrite. If you don't understand why, you are truly ignorant and will never understand anything but your own narrow point of view.

    Just keep watchin Oprah hunny. She'll tell you "the truth". Hahahaa!!!


    ********
    "When he came back he was both tired and irritable, and I noticed his standards of behaviour declining. Even during the week he would be snappy and rude, and it got to the point where we'd argue constantly. "
    ******

    Wouldn't YOU be tired if you stayed up dancing until 6 a.m.?

    If I were you, I'd be worried that my kid was doing drugs (as is "inevitable", supposedly, by your "super-informed" [heh] standards), if he came home wide awake and brimming with energy and sunny disposition when he got home. ESPECIALLY after getting no sleep.

    I'd really like to see you stay out until 6 a.m., or even 2 a.m., wearing yourself out dancing, and then try to be perfectly wide awake the next day if forced to be up after only a few hours sleep, if any sleep at all...

    Also, you need to understand that if you are trying to quell his individuality (he IS becoming an adult, capable of making his own decisions, you know), of COURSE he is going to be offended and argue with you.

    I've went through it since I was 13, because everything I did was something my parents had never seen (and therefore feared) and they were always trying to restrain me into being exactly like them.

    One of the joys of growing up is discovering yourself. Which is pretty damn hard to do with overbearing parents who only want to see you study all day, have no life, no relationships, no 'play time', no music they don't approve of, no friends they don't improve of--and especially, no experimenting with different lifestyles other than what they "know" to be acceptable.

    Also, it's a common known fact that the majority of teenagers, even with open and accepting parents, rebel and pull away from them. Why? Everyone needs the chance to grow up and find out what they believe in and what htey like/dislike for THEMSELVES. It's a growing phase, NOT caused by drug use and raves...

    I started rebelling when i was a strait-A student who dresesd preppy, never smoked, drank or did drugs, never had a boyfriend, never heard about raves EVER, and never listened to electronic music.

    It's beyond obvious that raves are not the source of all America's youth's problems.

    One other thing...just so you know, since you've long forgotten what it's like to be a kid, it's impossible not to be threatened when the adults in your life do nothing but argue with you about innane BULLSHIT. It tends to drive us crazy.


    ********
    "By this time I was seriously worried. So, as a concerned parent I made a concerted effort to discover why my son had changed so drastically."
    *******

    My guess is: hormones, and the fact that you're an overbearing tyrant.



    ******
    "Seeing as the only thing that had changed was his new-found love of electronic music and raves"
    ******

    Yeah, it's easy to forget the OTHER times he's done something you don't agree with whenever a NEW scapegoat has surfaced...


    *******
    "I decided to do some investigating."
    *****

    Did the mighty Oprah and Barbara Walters tell you that that's the right thing to do? And are they the only ones you've gotten your "research" from?

    Wouldn't doubt it...


    ******
    "Soon, I was shocked and appalled, for what had seemed at first a relatively harmless interest was exposed as a dangerous and depraved lifestyle known for sucking in innocents and destroying their lives!"
    ******

    What? The street life? The city life? The hip-hop life? The goth life? The teeny-bopper life? The rock life? The grunge life? The R & B club life? The high school alcohol party life? The Frat party life? WHAT??

    Oh, that's right...raves are the ONLY times kids get sucked into "drugs and immorality"...

    I guess all those homeless people and crack addicts became that way through raves, how silly of me to think otherwise!


    ********
    "Fact: Electronica and drugs are inherently linked

    Despite numerous claims from "ravers" that what they do is about music, or even spirituality and PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity and Respect), it remains an undisputed fact that raves and drug use go hand in hand. You cannot have one without the other."
    ******

    Drugs have been part of the night life for a century now. Discos, Jazz clubs, the roaring 20's, Rock concerts, bars...I guess those are all irrelevant since raves are obviously a million times more damaging solely on the fact that the music is different :rolleyes:


    ******
    "Users taking are said to be "rolling" and report euphoria and increased energy."
    ******

    huh--sounds like a lot of drugs to me!


    ******
    "Of course this begs the question of why they need an artificial and dangerous substance to feel good - is it that there is something lacking in their lives?"
    ******

    uh-huh...

    so explain what it is that you need to escape from every time you've ever had a drink of alcohol? Oh, that's right, Ecstasy and Rave drugs are the only illicit substances in the world. God knows that ALCOHOL never killed anybody!!!



    *****
    "Although there is no hard evidence yet, preliminary studies indicate that an astoundingly high percentage of regular "ravers" come from broken homes, and that a statistically significant proportion of them suffered from child abuse."
    ******

    If there is no evidence yet, then you're preliminary studies are bullshit. That's precisely why they haven't been published as viable research yet.

    50% of marriages end in divorce
    62% of spouses cheat

    And of course, these facts of life "must" spawn the rave lifestyle :rolleyes:

    I know plenty of people who have come from broken homes and abuse, some in my own family *gasp*. They've never set foot at a rave and never touched rave drugs either.

    You could take that 'reserch' of yours apply it to every scene in the world. The girls who fell in love with Elvis, despite parent's protests, must have been predominately from broken and abusing homes. The poeple who became hippies must have ALSO been from broken and abusive homes. If you haven't already figured it out, statistics can be applied to ANYTHING to prove a point that may not have any worth to prove.

    Where's your proof again? Oh, that's right, you HAVE none...

    Dumbass.


    ******
    "Clearly, such horrific experiences have made them more vulnerable to the "alternative lifestyle" of the rave "culture". "
    ******

    Ugh. Soooooooo ignorant. You can find abused poeple in every walk of life. I bet if you asked a hundred poeple, every single one can come up with some way they've been abused or can come up with a way they've been exposed to broken homes. and i bet that out of those hundred poeple you've polled, only one or two would frequent raves.


    *****
    "However there are other, less well known drugs that are at least as dangerous, such as GHB, also known as the "date rape drug" (see below). This can cause instant death in users, who, thanks to the reams of pro-drug propagdana available on the Internet, are often unaware of the potential dangers. "
    ******

    Au contraire. It is because of mediums like the internet that life-saving and eye-opening information on these drugs is available.

    Also, GHB is only the 'date-rape' drug to ignorant poeple who believe evrything htey see on TV. Rohypnol is the date-rape drug. You know, being 'slipped a mickey', roofies, roaches...?



    ******
    "Fact: Dealers encourage people to take drugs in order to get them hooked

    The manufacturers brand their products with trendy logos, add colourings to them and even make them in different shapes, all designed to foster youth appeal and make them resemble sweets. This is clearly a cynical ploy to make these killer pills seem harmless. "
    ******

    Only in some cases. Oftentimes, the color of a tab of ecstasy is the natural color of the adulterants inside.

    They are stamped with logos to differentiate between the type of high you will recieve, in a broad sense. They say no two batches of ecstasy are the same, so pressers come up with different pictures and names to say that it's a completely new batch.

    an example: You hear from someone that Blue Boogers, a new batch, have crystal meth in them, but you have always known that White Boogers are pure MDMA. So you seek out White Boogers because oyu know you like that brand.

    And no, I do not do ecstasy--But I'm not stupid, as are you, and I at least know how these things work, whereas you obviously do NOT.

    Also, Aleve is colored a pretty blue, and Tylenol is colored a shiny red and yellow...are THEY marketing their product to children because of the use of color? Emphatic NO.


    *****
    "Dealers are known to hand out free samples in order to get kids hooked"
    *****

    E is too expensive to give it out free to find addicts. You are stupid.



    *****
    "Fact: Electronica is designed to be addictive
    A little known fact is that dance music is played at a tempo which corresponds to human brain waves, causing addictive effects similar to cocaine in listeners."
    *****

    HHAHAAHAAHHAHAHHAHHAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!

    You are so funny!

    Ok, let me break it down for your sorry ass...

    There are basslines in every type of music. Repetitive ones at that. Here are a few examples of ultra-repetitive basslines (and beats):

    N'sync
    Brittney Spears
    Destiny's child
    Backstreet Boys
    98*
    Missy Eliot
    Mariah Carey

    anyone with half an ear can hear a bassline. obviously you havent heard one if you believe only electronica uses repetitive basslines. If you ask me, everything Ive listed above is horrible music and id rather my child listen to electronica ANY day than this zombie-producing dribble about 'baby' and 'my heart' and corny ass love songs...


    *******
    "No wonder people become so addicted to the "lifestyle" that goes with dance music; after several exposures to the basslines they cannot help themselves. This is especially pernicious when combined with the savagely addictive effects of the drugs teenagers are exposed to at clubs (see above). "
    ******

    You are too funny.

    Every lifestyle is addictive. Like gambling. I could easily say that the flashing lights and clinking of casino chips causes gamblers to be hopelessly sucked into the casino lifestyle and automatically make them addictive personalities solely by what is experienced in a casino. Oh yeah, and they all came from abusive homes and were molested as children. :rolleyes:



    *******
    "Fact: Immorality and sexual predation are common in the rave scene
    Apart from all the medical dangers that the rave scene contains, perhaps more scary is what the scene tries hard to hide - it's dark underside of sexual deviancy and predation. The most obvious sign of this is the "fashion" for provocative clothing that quite clearly inflames men's lusts. While it is sad that this is the case, and we can wish that men were more noble creatures, the lack of such abuse at more wholesome gatherings such as prayer meetings clearly reveals that this is a causitive influence. "
    *******

    What about the shit you see brittney spears and christina aguilera wearing on mtv???

    Is that morally sound by your standards???

    It must be, because brittney and christina are wholsome good american fun and their outfits are excusable, because they arent at a rave in those clothes...thank god they're only on national TV for your son and millions of kids to jack off to every night.

    FACT: youre a dumbass, and ignorant at that. rape, scantily clad women, sexual assault, molestation, and illicit sexual behavior happen every day in every aspect of your community. Why is it excusable for a girl to get raped or sexually harassed at a party or at school, but not at raves? Why is it OK for women to dress sexy on the street and in school, but not at a rave?

    You are overlooking the majority of instances of what you condemn jsut because they aren't taking place at a rave.

    Way to scapegoat. Youre a horirble parent.



    Ill be back. im too tred to type any more for tonight...i have college to go to despite the fact that im a "fucked up ecstasy abusing raver with no morals or goals" :rolleyes:


     
    Thank you, techno. (none / 0) (#83)
    by Anonymous Reader on Mon Nov 12th, 2001 at 08:54:08 PM PST
    If I didn't listen to electronic music, I would probably be doing drugs, I wouldn't be in college, and I wouldn't have a job. I would probably be homeless by now because my parents would have cut me off eventually. Thank you, techno.


     
    what the hell are you talking about?? (none / 0) (#84)
    by Anonymous Reader on Fri Nov 16th, 2001 at 01:55:34 AM PST
    this has got to be the biggest bunch of shit i have ever heard. not all of us "ravers" are drug addicts or sexual predators. i listen to techno because i enjoy it, the same reason everyone else listens to their specific genre of music. i like to dance. what better place to express myself dancewise than AT A RAVE, where i am beyond judgement. unless you know the history of the rave culture and understand the background behind it, dont pass judgement. the fools ruin it for the true lovers of the scene.


     
    Ignorance is BLISS :) (none / 0) (#88)
    by Anonymous Reader on Thu Mar 7th, 2002 at 06:49:14 PM PST
    The whole issue here is one parent who doesn't have a hold of herself or her child, so she creates an inaccurate accusation against a culture her son is "supposedly" involved in. Think about something here, Maybe are you overprotective or just possibly an everyday nosey parent? As teens grow up, dealing with their parents getting into every little amount of business, they grow rebellious. Don't blame it on a type of music. I myself am a rave scene/club scene DJ and I don't do a single drug nor do I drink alcohol. I have been a part of this music for the past 7 years and I have not once had a problem with my parents. Jesus, Sexual activities? Your son is obviously watching too much of the "blurry channel" because electronic music does not promote sex nor does it "physiologically" place in someone's mind to go get their shit off. Think of problems at home before your make false accusations to a genre of music which is loved and appreciated by billions worldwide.


     
    15 reasons why you are ignorant. (none / 0) (#89)
    by Anonymous Reader on Sun Jun 23rd, 2002 at 11:17:26 PM PST
    For your information:
    1 When you use extacy it doesnt make you a hornball.
    2 Pedophiles don't generally go to raves. (sorry)
    3"Fact: Immorality and sexual predation are common in the rave scene" <---propagated shit
    Fact: While on extacy, yes you get a little cozy with people on the dance floor, but generally speaking, it does not produce a sexual effect, but a sensual one instead. You could sit on the couch with your boyfriend and make out (harmless..) without the fear of him trying to take advantage of you. However, like in most cases, this is not ALWAYS true.
    4 The assumption that drugs are immoral is a terrible statement to make. Drugs have been used since the beginning of time to achieve a heightened state of understanding. It is used religiously as well. Picasso used drugs, (immoral of course...right?) and his paintings are revered by many to be among the most precious on earth today. Our own president used them (he's an immoral bastard, but then again a startling 90% of the immoral population (guilty of drinking alcohol..another immoral drug (tell that to all of catholicism)) voted for him.
    5 Oh jesuit, not homosexuality. You may not realize this, but there are a million homosexuals that dont go to raves. This may be because being under the influence of the monster drug,x, does not make you gay. And, I mean if they are gay, god forbid they are happy. God forbid they pursue happiness and exude confidence in their own sexuality. You're a fucking homophobe, and that is sick.
    6 Another fact: Rave music is not designed to interfear with human brain waves. Its just electric music with a beat, and you are unbelievably misinformed. Rave music does not make your child do drugs. It's probably due to the fact that parents love to ride their childs asses about anything and everything they can because they are shameless power strugglers who need to go smoke a joint and chill out. I'm sorry kids today dont appreciate singers like Barbra Striesand and Micheal Bolton, but then again, they're immoral too...so never mind that.
    7 "letting their children into a dark world of drugs, addiction, and immorality" Sounds to me like you think you are a model parent. I think its funny that your complete ignorance leads you into believing so. Lady, you act like your shit doesn't smell. You're going to tell me you've never tried alcohol, drink it at all, you have no addictive habits, and you've never to this day done anything that could be deemed immoral by societal standards? You must be a modern day Christ. Pull the crusifix out of yer ass and think about what you are saying. You sound like a complete fucking hypocrite. No wonder your child/ren is/are fucked up. I can see why they would want to go to a rave: TO GET THE HELL AWAY FROM YOU.
    8 "If your daughter is going these raves, she will suffer these things!"
    I bet you got this one straight out of a D.A.R.E pamphlet. You're right, it's inevitable that your daughter, under the influence of an evil drug, will find some creep to carry her away to their rape van. I mean, its a sure thing, right? WRONG.
    I think that you got it a little wrong. Your daughter, a little stoned perhaps, decided that she was through waiting for marrige to experience that which makes us human (it's an impulse not a fucking sacrament). I don't blame her. You can't tell me that sex doesn't feel good, or make you feel happy. So what, she had sex with her boyfriend (far from your pedophilia phobia bullshit). Im sure it's immoral though.
    9. "This often leads to sexual contact, especially between people who are already friends. What may start as a simple group hug may become something more sexual, with heavy petting and more occuring on the dance floor, in front of other people!"
    Oh god, not sexual contact. I mean that would just be terrible. Sorry that we all have to be married before we casually make out with someone who is our friend. Yeah, it may be a litte awkward the next morning, perhaps embarassing, but at least they are friends, and they arent having s...e...x. What is the taboo? I mean, yes I think the act of sex itself is very intimate and it should be reserved for someone you love, but you could be doing the same thing (oftentimes more than that) under the influence of alcohol. So whats yer fucking point. I mean, you might as well not let yer kid outside!!!
    10 "Of course this begs the question of why they need an artificial and dangerous substance to feel good - is it that there is something lacking in their lives"
    There is this thing you might not have heard of, its called fun. Does someone need to be lacking to go out and get lush on their birthday? Why should it be like that with any other drug?
    And lady, I'm not going to guess that yer life is a fucking cupcake either. I mean your child must hate you. With most people there is something lacking. Thats why 90% of the world's population uses drugs. We aren't all fucking Forest Gumps here. Some of us think, a concept which I have been lead to strongly believe you have no capability of grasping. Drugs slow down the person who thinks constantly. You, I am sure do not know what it is like to think with out relent...all the fucking time. Thats what drugs are for. Everyone has a void to fill, so that question is not whether people need drugs (sometimes replaced, by people like you with obsessive religious beliefs), but whether or not you can ever get to the point where you have enough common sense to not ask such lame questions.
    11. "Fact: Dealers encourage people to take drugs in order to get them hooked "
    No shit sherlock. Its called capitalistic venture. Otherwise known as moneymaking. In fact, drugs turn over the highest revenue of any other substance known to man. Were people supposed to be suprised by that over obvious statement?
    12. "These are men that in normal life cannot find themselves a girlfriend."
    These are the same men who run religious, financial, non-profit, and governmental institutions. In other words, they are everywhere. Sorry to knock you out of your jesus induced high, but thats the reality of things today. Deal with it.
    13."The effects of ecstacy are such that it lowers people's inhibitions, and makes them want to touch each other"
    Hmm... there are these things that are excreted because of your brain, and it makes them want to touch eachother.
    They are called hormones. I'm guessing that testosterone and estrogen should be immoral/illegal too. Then again, so should all pre-marital sexual contact. Lets outlaw feelings too and suppress youthful feeling so they go crazy and become nympomanical crack-addicts instead. The teenage years are a time of sexual exploration. Go read Freud, Mrs. Mother of the Year.
    14."They have a warped view of interpersonal relationships, and the only thing they know is exploitation. "
    I'm supposing you are leaving this article as an outlet for your most personal feelings. You are the one with a warped viewpoint, and you are exploiting the minds of the poorly educated minds that are reading this article. And your interpersonal relationship skills (or ideas) seem to lack more than that of all the druggies. So there...
    15. "Be on the look out for such telltale signs amongst your child and their friends - this includes strange phrases used to describe such actions, excessive physical contact - hugging, kissing and stroking, and behavioural changes in their relationships with each other, you and even strangers."
    Strange phases, eh? I remember this could also be called puberty. You have decided to warp hugging into some scary sexual dysfunction. So I guess hugging my friend means im a lesbian, and hugging my boyfriend means im strung out on some wonder drug. And behavioural changes aren't only due to drugs, ma'am. Once again, read some Psychology, and learn about physiological changes in the teenage human body, then tell me about "behavioural changes". And If I were your daughter I would make a big behavioural change and leave. If you are concerned about excentric behaviour, do not attribute it to drugs, instead, take your daughter to a shrink. After all the mental abuse I assume she's taken from you, she'll need it.

    Please, enlighten me and read into what you are trying to say cause you sound like a complete neandrathal. These ideas are antiquated and propagated. Next time try to see it from another perspective. Perhaps that of your daughter. If you <i>really</i> want to know what your daughter is thinking, try extacy yourself. It's not the evil drug you think it is. Practicing psychologists and psychiatrists use it in therapy, disregarding the evil label put on it. Before criticising something you've never tried, please realize that you sound like an ignoramus to the people who have experienced it.

    xskippyx
    xcompletelyagnosticx



     

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